A Therapist, A Buddhist, and You
A Therapist, A Buddhist, and You
From Detox to Freedom: Navigating the Realities of Life After Addiction
Are you struggling with the early stages of recovery? Curious about how to cope with Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS) can last up to two years? Join us as we shed light on these challenges, diving into the intricacies of PAWS, the impact of addiction on the central nervous system, and how the severity of your addiction can influence the duration of PAWS.
We'll go beyond the physical symptoms, venturing into the cognitive challenges of early recovery. Luke & Zaw share their personal journey of relearning tasks while battling concentration and memory issues. We’ll serve practical strategies to help you navigate this demanding period. Hear how we've managed stress, developed coping mechanisms, and embraced the concept of "getting our marbles back," a symbol of progress in recovery.
Finally, we’ll explore the critical role of sleep hygiene in early recovery. Listen to our personal experiences, the use valuable techniques to improve REM sleep. We’ll also remind you of the importance of patience and trust. Join us and remember, you're not alone in this journey. Let's walk together towards a healthier, sober life.
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Zaw Maw — Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
Luke DeBoy — Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
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Recovery Collective
Welcome to A Therapist of Buddhist In You, brought to you by the Recovery Collective in Annapolis, maryland. We journey through self-discovery and collective solution to all things health and wellness. My name is Luke DeBoy, who happens to be a therapist, And joining me on this enlightening adventure is my co-host, atheravada Buddhist Meditation and Life Coach Zahmal.
Speaker 2:Hey Luke, How's it going?
Speaker 1:Hi everyone, And together we'll explore the intersections of psychology, spirituality, health and wellness, offering practical insights along the way. Thank you for tuning in and joining our collective community. Please communicate with us, and all the social media is, of course, facebook, tiktok, youtube, you name it. They're in our episode notes. As usual, we're here to provide you with valuable tools and perspectives that have the ability to transform your life. If you find our podcast helpful, we greatly appreciate your support. We like to call it our handshake agreement. We provide you with, hopefully, deep dives of valuable information and you leave a like, comment, subscribe and, really most importantly, share our podcast with others. If you'd like to monetarily thank us, we've got that option now, too. We welcome that as well. There's this heart donate button and all the episodes, and you're more than welcome to Remember it's through our collective efforts that we can uncover solutions to all things related to health and wellness. With today's all, let's navigate the challenges of early recovery. How does that sound?
Speaker 2:That sounds good. It sounds like a continuation of the two-part episode we've done about addiction. That's right.
Speaker 1:We did that early on, when we really broke down some of the physiological aspects of the addiction as well as the solution towards addiction, including an equation for recovery, because today this really deep dive in those early stages of recovery is individuals embark on a courageous journey toward reclaiming their lives through these clutches of addiction. It really is vicious. People in early recovery face the challenges of detox, working through intense physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms. Even after that detox phase, however, another hurdle awaits, as we call it, palls, or Post-Acute Withdrawal.
Speaker 2:Syndrome.
Speaker 1:You ever heard of that? Yeah, a lot of us have heard of that. If who's ever been in treatment, it's often a quote, unquote group or insight that they get. I think it's really important for whether it's people that are finding this podcast, that are in early recovery or struggling with addiction. We also have family members that check out this podcast that want to learn more about all things health and wellness when it comes to substance use and addiction and recovery.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Just out of curiosity. that term I've heard of that. It's interesting. Is there like an intentional impact about that acronym, or PAWS PALLS?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. It's the P-A-W-S, not the stop in PALLS like you would do your phone or YouTube or something like that. It's an acronym that stands for Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. If we look at that, it's post. it's after the acute withdrawal, which is detox Syndrome is a fancy way to say a group of symptoms. These are all the things that someone might experience after the acute withdrawal of the detox stage. Detox stage is seven, 10, 14 days. This might say differently if you're in a detox facility or residential facility. These are all the things that can happen really those two weeks after you stop using and you're not in that detox phase anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we can dig into that. What are the common symptoms?
Speaker 1:One of the reasons why it's so common. I got some of this information from Terence Gorski. He's pretty big and renowned and an old timer when it comes to medical research and the recovery information when it comes to understanding a lot of the physiological aspects. One of the statistics that he has is 75 to 95% of all addicts suffer from some kind of brain dysfunction. 75 to 95%. What does that mean? It says brain dysfunction. It doesn't necessarily mean brain damage, but it's not functioning properly. Is that really a shocker? I don't think so.
Speaker 1:If we're using substances and abusing substances and you need detox, you need to get rid of the poison. Well, it's going to affect your brain and body. It's just pretty much that simple. Because of that, it affects the central nervous system, which is the brain and spinal cord. When you go through the detox phase and you kind of get rid of those chemicals and those poisons out of your brain and body, it can still affect your brain and body for quite a long time. If you were to have to take a guesstimate, a guess, how long do you think? we know detox can last 7 to 14 days on average. How long do you think post-acute withdrawal would last? If detox is 14 days. How long do you think paul's or these symptoms will last?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it might linger right, The frequency and the intensity might decrease, but maybe it will linger for a few months or more. Keep going.
Speaker 1:There's been some research that says it can last up to two years, one of the reasons why it can linger that long. Often we see certainly for that up to that year mark, but it can last for even longer. Well, it depends on two things the amount of damage you do to yourself and the severity. As I mentioned, it affects the central nervous system.
Speaker 1:I always give that example of when I was gosh in my early 20s. I was living with a roommate and he had one of those Reynolds wrap boxes that you'd find in restaurants that you would do cellophane or aluminum foil, and there's that little serrated edge. It was on top of the freezer and I opened the freezer and it fell and it cut my left ring finger and of course I'm left-handed, of course at that time I was a really avid active climber and it cut right through a nerve. Gosh, it's 10 plus years, 12 plus years, since that happened and it still doesn't quite feel the same way as it used to, and it certainly didn't for the first six months or longer, probably a year and a half. When you sever a nerve whether you have an ACL knee surgery or Tommy John, that on our collateral ligament, and you cut through nerves. If anyone has a surgery, they know what it feels like. It's numb, it's tingly, and it takes very slow for a nerve to grow and heal itself and connect.
Speaker 1:Now when we abuse substances, we are not severing our central nervous system, we're not severing our nerves, but we are certainly damaging the brain and spinal cord with poison. If you think of it that way, yes, we're not cutting our spinal cord, but we are doing damage to our central nervous system. and if you look at it that way, some people are drinking and drugging for days, weeks, months, years, decades.
Speaker 1:the amount of damage after the detox, there's seven to 14 days yes it could take up to two years for that brain to really, in that central nervous system, to really rebound in a way that it used to Think of smoking with the lungs. It can come back, it can recoup, it can heal itself. We are Wolverine, we are the world's most amazing puzzle, which I'm so fascinated by. It can take potentially two years, especially if 75 to 95 percent of quote-unquote addicts have some kind of brain dysfunction. It can take that long.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about some of these symptoms. If this phenomenon occurs in the early recovery process after the initial withdrawal phase, it can manifest in a bunch of different ways. Let's look at that, shall we? Sounds good. The first, once again, is syndrome is a group of symptoms. Let's look at the first one that I often talk about and it's that inability to think clearly. Yeah, you're out of the. For those people that have been to detox, that libraium shuffle, you're out of that medication phase of detox and you're getting your wits to you. Inability to think clearly. Let's talk about the how, why and then what do you do about it? We know how Damage from poisoning ourselves. Why do you think there's an inability to think clearly?
Speaker 2:What do you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah, i mean, as you mentioned earlier, that brain dysfunction the brain is not capable of doing this function properly or full capacity. But yeah, reflecting on my own experience, i'm grateful that these informations are available. Hopefully the clients are open to it and then to be aware of that. But when I was going through that I had no idea. I was also back in Burma, so I was just powering through that. It would have been nice to know these things. But inability to think clearly, that's a tricky one, especially because people like alcoholics, an addict myself who has a really huge ego as an addict So I do admit that I'm thinking not clearly. I don't want to admit that because people are going to point out that you're not making sense, you're not thinking clearly, but I don't want to agree to that. No, i'm good, you know, as a clinical director.
Speaker 1:Hearing people say I got this, I'm good, I got this, was like, oh, it made me cringe, Almost like the kiss of death, like oh, you're not thinking clearly. I think that they could do it by themselves And oh, I got through the detox, but I must be okay now. This made me cringe when I heard people say I'm good, I got this. And there's two symptoms of post-acute that I like to connect together and we'll connect them and separate them Inability to think clearly and memory problems. So there's two different aspects of that. One way, in terms of inability to think clearly, we can break it down in terms of concentration. We can break it down in terms of abstract critical thinking. It's not an intelligence thing that we're saying, hey, your IQ was here and now it's not. It's not an intelligence that's affected, It's the inability to concentrate. It's the concrete logic ration part of the brain. Now, we certainly talked about this in those early episodes about the physiological aspects, but it's important to bring it up just briefly here in this episode that the brain is damaged top to bottom And we talk about where, forward thinkers, we've been gifted this frontal lobe called the cerebral cortex, which is responsible for ration, logic, reasoning and things like that, We damaged that part of the brain.
Speaker 1:So the medical model I often say parallels very clearly with the 12 step model. Medical model says hey, your best thinking got you here and you're using your rational logic and reasoning to maintain sobriety or minimize your substance use or prevent your relapses from happening. And if you're using just that alone, I'm a little concerned as a medical or an addictions therapist and professional, because that part of the brain is literally damaged. That part of the brain is dysfunctional. You've done damage to that part. So you're using your damage logic to get you out of the situation which keeps leading to the cycle of relapse. Type one says we admitted we were powerless over alcohol and that our lives have become unmanageable. Why? The medical model says we've damaged that part of the brain. Post-acute says I don't have the ability to think clearly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i also think of like inability to think clearly is, yeah, my lenses are of power kind of thing, like if I'm wearing glasses and I'm off the power, the things are just blurry. But I'm like trying really hard to see things clearly. But also like seeing things out of proportion as well, like making decisions based on based out of proportion, because you know, that's the thing about the logic being able to think reasonably, like pros and cons, ration, right and wrong or based on experience, but that's like kind of out of balance. So making decisions based out of that is just yeah.
Speaker 1:I can relate it to not having brain dysfunction, but maybe not a fully developed brain. When I was first in love with that puppy love, i had those rose colored glasses. My ability to think clearly was certainly foggy from my puppy love. And then, of course, the heartbreak how could this happen? A lot of us have gone through that and we see that with our children and other people. And I imagine that with it, damaged brain, not just a developed brain, but a damaged brain. And I'll give a couple of examples.
Speaker 1:After I went through treatment and went back to college My inability to think clearly my first thought was hey, let me take some Adderall because I have a hard time reading this book. I have a hard time just putting sentences together so I can write a paper. So my first logic was let me buy this Adderall from the kid down the dorm and I'm not going to abuse it. That seems rational and logical to me and I won't drink on it, i won't smoke on it, i won't abuse it, even though it's not subscribed to me, and I'll just be fine.
Speaker 1:That was my logic and reasoning, because my stress was through the roof and I didn't know how to cope with this and I said, okay, this has to be the solution. That was my logic. My brain was wired to find quick, easy solutions. And I know it wasn't my drug of choice and I know it wasn't drinking and I know it wasn't smoking. Why not altering substances? Okay, let me not abuse that. And someone could give this to me as prescribed, not thinking of how that could alter my mind and mood and that I always did use other substances on it and that could trigger a relapse. But that was my logical thinking at that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no wonder it is. I guess the wording that you used in the beginning was like challenges in early recovery Yes, So it describes it so well about that being a challenge. Because I'm more curious as we keep talking about like how do I even have hope that this will change? because I've experienced that where I was unhappy at my own ability, what is wrong with me? and my only way of getting better or to deal with that inability to think after I've accepted is to go back to old ways, because that just like feels familiar. But then to think beyond that, that is almost like impossible to have hope that. Oh, am I even going to get better, Yeah, Or am I going to stuck here?
Speaker 1:Before I give you that suggestion, let me just pile on some more stress. Real quick Sounds good. Another example of that inability is just that fuzzy thinking or not being able to process the way you may want to. My example was I couldn't read or write a paper when I went back to school. For someone else, it might be things they didn't have to think about working under the hood of a car or doing something on a computer. All these things might have been second nature to us.
Speaker 1:And now that we're in a different mind state and there's been some proof that when you're out of detox, the brain is literally contracting and expanding, trying to find its normal steady state, trying to find its normal amount of chemicals. And this is after those 14 days and my brain is trying to heal itself. Yeah, concentration and thinking. Clearly. One example I often give people is you hear something you like in a speech, or you're in class, or you listen to your boss or your TV and you try to remember it. Or if you're in a 12-step meeting and you really like what that person said, like, oh, i like that, i love that, i don't want to forget it. So I start repeating it to myself, so I don't forget it And that third or fourth time I go shit. What was I saying Or what did he say? I forget that quickly. So that compound thinking can be challenging, which is very stressful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in addition to that stress speaking out of my own experience, is that my dysfunctional brain also concludes, based on the experience, that sobriety would not look good on me. Why do I want to be sober? This sucks.
Speaker 1:I can't do this, yeah, so let's give some suggestions, shall we? One important thing is to limit the amount of time you spend on any task, hopefully no more than 15 to 20 to 25 minutes. So when I went to rehab at 20 years old, all I had to do was wake up. People fed me, they told me what class to go to, they gave me suggestions and they did everything except when I had to take a piss or shit. They controlled my life And I absorbed all of that information that I could for 28 days And I went okay, here's all this information. I'm not in that altered state anymore And you're giving me all this information. And then I left and I was actually exhausted. I was tired, i was happy, I was on a pink cloud, but, my goodness, i couldn't remember half the stuff that they told me. I often tell people you might be lucky to remember 10, 15, 20% the things that you learn if you go to a detox or if you go to a rehab and go to a bunch of classes. I couldn't absorb all that. So now I leave and now I've got all this world stuff And for me it was eventually going back to school.
Speaker 1:But there's a reason why, for example, if you had a back surgery or a knee surgery or a shoulder surgery, you might not be able to go back right to your working situation in your everyday life, because there had to be a rehabilitation process, not just for range of motion and reducing swelling, we're talking about the brain here. Yeah, we're reducing swelling and poison, but now the brain is absorbing so much more than it ever had to in a clear mind. So I struggled. I struggled with school. Some people struggle going back to work right away. When they were used to doing things in an altered state, i thought it made me better.
Speaker 1:So how do we combat that? Would it be ideal for people to take FMLA and be able to work part-time and do all those things first, absolutely, as a society, are we there yet and treat this like hey, if you're doing hard labor and you got a knee injury, you obviously can't. Why do we even pretend that you can? Well, we're not doing that with addiction yet, but we got that with physical injuries. My hope is we'll eventually get there with this brain condition and full body condition as well.
Speaker 1:But what do I tell people? Be easy on yourself, don't expect you to be able to do what you can, even in that altered state. So, if you can, if you work from home, if you're working in an office, take 15 minute breaks. Treat it like you're a chronic smoker except don't actually smoke and go to the bathroom or take a mindful meditation, or go for a mindful walk or get fresh air, or go get your coffee or your water and take five, 10, 15 minutes or say you're going to go vape, whatever it is, but allow your brain to go. Okay, i just absorbed this information with my rational logic brain, i absorbed this with the cerebral cortex and now I'm going to allow my brain to. I don't have to be on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a very practical suggestion. Basically, what you're saying the way I'm interpreting is that no need to increase the capacity but reduce the demand. And, as you were talking to, i was reflecting on my own experience about I associate it because I was playing in a band, playing music a lot and then singing, and I was always intoxicated every time I do that, stopping and staying sober. And whenever I play guitar and I tried to do that, i just felt disappointed in myself, you know, but I had to be patient with myself, only to find out later that I'm actually much better, you know, but it took me a long time to be patient with that. So that's a practical advice, but also something that is hard to absorb. Again, that ego thing is that ego, yeah, don't limit what I can do. You know, don't underestimate me, i can do that. So but, yeah, having people around and then kind of being patient with that is very practical. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which I think it's so important, when you are in that detox or residential treatment facility and an intensive outpatient, to learn and have this insight of this is what you're facing.
Speaker 1:This is why maybe part of the reason why you've relapsed in the past or so many other people often relapse in the past because, just like with depression or anxiety, i can't tangibly see it like a surgery on my elbow or my shoulder and my knee.
Speaker 1:You know, if I try to walk on an ACL injury, i know it's going to bust open and it's going to be miserable and painful.
Speaker 1:or it's kind of hard that when we're talking about the brain and look at this as a brain disease, so allow yourself to be where you're at, because, let's look at this, the inability to think clearly can affect your self-esteem in a negative way, increase stress, and I went to escape stress because that's what I did when I was using and I know a solution for that With my rational, logical brain that's damaged and that's the cycle of relapse for a lot of people Doing too much. I'm fortunate I work with a lot of people that are younger and They go from wanting to do all these classes as opposed to piece-mealing, maybe taking a class or two or three or doing Their career job. that is unbelievably stressful, and they don't know if they want to make this their, their job to their career. Well, there are can be benefits to a quote-unquote get-well job if you have that opportunity to do so, where you can focus on the recovery processing and emotional well-being and, before you get to the Significant stress, prioritizing Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, patience is the virtue. It's not your fight, is that?
Speaker 1:So so memory problems, that's a big one. Talk about the brain being damaged from top to bottom. After this cerebral cortex we get to the midbrain, specifically the hippocampus, which is often has a direct effect on memory and emotion. So that part's damaged. And when I give an example, many years ago I was working in an outpatient setting and this guy and his 40s, he moved to a sober house. He was going to an outpatient active and 12-set recovery support groups and He would go home at the end of the night to see his wife and his child and go back to the sober house.
Speaker 1:And One day he went back home and he was really connecting with the guys in the sober house and the fellowship of recovery fellowship and His wife gave him a honey-do list and it was like football season and he did some of those things in that honey-do list and He went to the sober house to watch the football game and he came back the next day And it was, you know, set, college football Saturday. And then it was Sunday and his wife's looking at him And I said you forgot to cut the grass. Sorry, i totally forgot all about it. So then he does some other things around the house, plays with his daughter, does one or two things, the honey-do list and then asked football Sunday. So he went back to the Back to the watching football with the guys in the sober house.
Speaker 1:So his wife calls him up, get over here about what he's already stressed, right, the trigger of active use for years and decades. And he's coming home and she's just there sitting there tapping her foot and he walks in and He goes you forgot to cut the grass again. Oh, honey, i'm so sorry, it just slipped my mind once again. I just I just totally forgot about it. And she said you're acting more messed up now than you would ruin your using I think you are using stress went up in Ability to think clearly, lacked some other coping skills. It was the weekend. Yes, you had the guys in the sober house but didn't go to meeting that day, didn't have his IOP on Friday either. And then he said I didn't get sober to feel this way. So the memory problems and that just goes hand in hand with inability to think clearly. But these are big stressors and triggers for people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's difficult. I can relate to all that. I guess you know it keeps coming back to that question at the back of my mind about, like, where's the hope? because that negative thinking or, catr, i'm catrospic Catastrophe. Yeah, so like I'm gonna be like this forever, but that's that's where my attic and the alcoholic break takes me. This will never have passed. I'm gonna be this forgetful person in ability to think, not functional, not intelligent, not creative. This is how sobriety looks like for the rest of my life, you know. So how do we help?
Speaker 1:There is certainly a reason when there's those platitudes with those sayings and certainly The acceptance that comes with Buddhist perspective. You know this too shall pass. It will not always be this way and once again it's giving ourselves permission that I might not remember What I was doing or who I was talking to or what was on that. To do honey, to do less 15 minutes ago. It's another example of Let me accept where I'm at in this process. Oh man, if I was using it for days, weeks, months, decades, just like a physical injury or surgery or rehab. The same thing is true with this. I Can give myself permission that I might not be where I want to be, but if I give myself the the permission to know, that is quite possible.
Speaker 1:And often people begin to see that in the Detox and the residential and the PHP and the IOP phase if they're in treatment. Man, you're right, i'm not a sharp man, i forgot I was supposed to do that assignment for my counselor. Oh man, it's already this time. I missed the meeting. We begin to see that treatment and then allow ourselves to the insight This won't last. I am healing, i am no longer poisoning myself. It's a beautiful thing. Tell our trusted friends that, hey, i'm not a sharp.
Speaker 1:Some old school facilities give for quote unquote graduation. You don't graduate from recovery or rehab, that's not a thing. But during the graduation process or the completion stage They would give their clients marbles. Hey, you got your marbles back. And we can see the humor in that. But we can also see the insight and go, oh, this is going to happen and this is okay. If it does happen, allow myself to get 15 minute increments to of my life. Sometimes we do that with cravings. Why can't we do that for our memory and our concentration? And we need support through that. Hey, i'm not gonna be a sharp.
Speaker 1:It's not because I'm using You're gonna see other signs if I'm using, if, if I'm this Lack of sharpness or memory issues.
Speaker 2:What you just said about this to shell pass. I do want to interject a thought here, which I'm not sure if it's entirely Buddhist or it will be just like a philosophy. It just got me thinking about time right past, present and future. That When I say this to shell pass, or when I cannot accept it, that it's gonna be like this forever, i'm like stuck in this, like fixed thinking. I don't yeah, i mean from the point of your karma, action and reaction. You know.
Speaker 2:So where I am today is as a result of what I have done in the past, but I have responsibility and power for the future. So that's where the acceptance come in. Like I have this memory problem inability to think as a result of what I have done to my brain, but like I cannot do anything about it. I can choose not to, and I'm gonna be like this forever, of course, if I don't do anything, but then the action that I take today will have positive effect on my life in the future.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's where the the essence of recovery is to believe that change is possible. Because you know, i've been there where I'm like oh, i'm here already and this is gonna be like this forever, which is like I'm not going to do anything about it. Since I'm going to be like this, let me just go back to my old way. But then having people to help. I guess that's also why the power of that recovery community is that no, just take actions anyway and it's going to pay off down the line. You know, it's not like waiting for recovery to happen.
Speaker 2:I have to take action.
Speaker 1:I certainly wouldn't wish this on anyone, but when I had clients that stare at typically you'll hear, called wet brain, there's this condition called and I butcher a lot of terms, so it's called Warnikis or Korsakov's I might have butchered that where there's malnourishment of the brain And when other clients see those conditions and see to the level of short-term memory issues communication concerns, lack of concrete intellectual thinking there is a big difference between some short-term memory stuff with post-acute withdrawal and other very significant brain conditions where oh, wow, i'm not that bad End quote Or oh, i'm really worried about that person, i'm much better off than I thought I was. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but when I had clients with those conditions it was very telling and it put things in perspective for them. Yeah, they might have some memory issues right now, but the fear and ego can go and I can have the support to get me through this and allow my body and brain to heal. Hopefully I didn't butcher that term too bad. I always do. So let's get to the third symptom or syndrome, part of the syndrome group of symptoms Emotional overreaction or emotional numbness.
Speaker 1:Emotional numbness I'm a huge advocate for I call it when I'm working with my clients that are in recovery or want some version of sobriety or minimize or use. I call it emotional sobriety. And one thing that can be certainly challenging after the detox stage, especially in those first year definitely those first three, six, nine months is the emotional overreaction, emotional roller coaster, the high highs, the low lows, the some people say making a mountain out of a molehill, the inability to cope with emotions, because you know what? I've got the number one coping skill and I get to numb out and I can change the way I feel with substances. So that emotional awareness and the emotional roller coaster. So this is saying that this is part of the symptoms of post-acute withdrawal, that there's a reason why there's that emotional overreaction. We damaged the part of the brain that's responsible for that and part of that is the hippocampus, where you rewire a brain to want and need and cope with substances. But that part of the brain is also affected by alcohol and drugs as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that resonates a lot with me. About emotional Yeah, it just reminds me that easily irritable, right, Like everything pisses me off some little things or not being able to feel at all, But again, like I like the fact that we're terminated as acute withdrawal syndrome because my alcohol and my negative thinking can conclude that this is my makeup. You know that I'm emotionally numb, I'm emotionally unavailable, And it also makes me think of the allergy, right, Abnormal reaction.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like when I'm emotionally like that I feel like I'm allergic to life, that I am responding abnormally to really big things as I don't know, that's not important.
Speaker 1:or like really tiny little things as, oh, this is the end of the world, So like, yeah, it's a tough existence And when you're in treatment, you get to process that emotional reaction that we have in treatment, whether it's in an outpatient, whether it's in a treatment facility because it's going to happen. You're with other people and then you're dealing with the life outside of the room or the rehab or the detox or the outpatient, and you're coming with these real life stuff that leads to stress and being able. A good facilitator is going to help you process one, what you're actually thinking and feeling. Two, how you are currently coping with it or have you coped with it in the past. And three, what's a healthy way to cope with it. What are you actually thinking and feeling now?
Speaker 1:What are these other perspectives from people in the group that you can walk through this and make this intense emotion more right side, and that's powerful work and that's going to affect the brain in a positive way. Oh, i'm not just going on impulse. I am dealing with this feeling and it's not making me want to numb out or just hide or run or chaos or whatever it is, and for some people it makes the reaction more appropriate to the event. Or, if you're emotionally overloaded, you get to dissect some of these emotions and you're not going to be completely numb or completely chaos through the roof And all of a sudden, you can put these in the little pieces and make sense of them and go okay, i'm not numbing this out, i'm not feeling better or high and feel differently, and I can think through this, feel through this and ultimately act through this, and that, to me, is the action and the power of treatment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i'm really grateful of this conversation. I know I'm only a drink away and a drug away, but it just makes me grateful that I went through that and then happily here. But also, being an addict has a lot to do with control too. That's also why, when I am my drinking and using days, i created emotions, that instant gratification that if I'm not feeling good I want to feel good right away, and if I'm feeling something terrible I want to numb it out. So my brain is so used to that. So to be in a place where emotions are all out of place, i don't like that, because I want to be in control of my emotions. It's just so difficult, so challenging to be open to a new way.
Speaker 1:We call that the pleasure center of the brain. the dopamine hit me. You explain it perfectly. That's why the addiction goes from choice to no choice or oh. I only know how to act and react this way And this is my biggest kind of crusade. Get treatment for this, whether it's therapy, real-life prevention, group, outpatient, to process these things. That is why therapy is just so valuable for this process. It's hard to see or think or feel. Remember, the rational, logical part of the brain is not where it could be or should be in terms of optimal, logical, concrete, healthy thinking. So the emotional brain is damaged and the logical brain isn't there yet. But if you're in treatment, guess what begins to rewire and begins to potentially this is just my belief whether it's heal faster or appropriately, it's going to help the logical brain and reasoning Because you are experiencing, feeling, talking, working through and what you're going to take out of the room. whether it's therapy, whether it's a group, Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it goes back to that question again where is hope? So it gets better. In my experience it did get better, but that lingering part, oh, my memory is terrible. so I've accepted it And I'll just work on my recovery no matter what. And then, a couple of months later, i still have the same memory problem. How do I instill hope within myself that I'm making progress.
Speaker 1:I'm never going to do this but I would love to. I have a relapse prevention group. That's been going on for years and I still have a lot of the same members in that relapse prevention group for years. Not because they quote unquote need it, because they get a lot of support, hope, installation of recovery and health and wellness and spirituality And it's just a part of their daily routine, just like praying or meditating or going to the gym. It's part of their routine that they get and like, not because they are suffering. So when I have new group members that come to this group, i've got more than a handful of people with multiple years of sobriety in this group by choice And that installation of hope is passed down from their experiences from another person that you know what, when they had 30 days or they just got out of detox or residential treatment, they knew exactly what it was like and how they felt And they can look back of their skewed perspectives and thoughts and what they were doing in early recovery that you know they stayed sober through but thank goodness they had support and hope from others to help walk them through this early part of recovery.
Speaker 1:So the powers in their experiences and treatment. There's hope. If there was in hope, there wouldn't be the need for treatment. That's part of hope. Is being able to get treatment or therapeutic gain is, and there's so much hope in that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good stuff about that dysfunctional brain. You know, if that's the only thing that I have, i'm doomed. But the recovery community and the treatment is that? no, let me just put that aside. You know, and it is possible to borrow something else, some kind of coping skill, and then let that part of the brain heal instead of trying too hard to fix it while it's not fixable.
Speaker 1:Oh, and to see in a matter of whether it's numbness or emotional, quote, unquote, overreaction, and then see the brain and the processing come together and it's almost like a light bulb. Some people call it a spiritual experience, for some like oh to have that relief in a matter of you know, five minutes to an hour is just powerful And that does positive things to the brain. It rewires it.
Speaker 2:Very cool, yeah, i mean again, it's really good to have this information, whether I like it or not, accept it or not, but to know that, okay, this is what I'm going through, as opposed to what is wrong with me.
Speaker 1:And when that happens, it goes from no longer shutting down or the efforts to oh, i just worked through something And I did that with support and I did that in treatment. I did that through processing. I can do it again. Let's keep going. Huh, that's a good one. That's one of my favorite ones. You could probably hear it through my passion. Let's jump to sleep disturbances, sleep problems. So they're saying that this is once again part of this whole post-acute withdrawal symptom syndrome. Let's talk about the how. One of the statistics is if you drink six hours before you go to sleep, it can affect your sleep cycle.
Speaker 1:Six hours, that's it Not like, hey, we're going out to the bar or drinking at home, watching sports, and it's 9, 10, 11, 12, right, six hours before. There's two kinds of waves and I use this as a general term. If there's any neuroscientists out there, this is a general way for people to understand Two waves of sleep slow wave cycle and REM rapid eye movement. In general, you should go to four to six cycles of this in a night, which, in general, is why a full night's sleep is right around eight hours. Now they've done some research and they see if you drink six hours before you go to sleep if not shorter than that that your rapid eye movement is affected. Some people don't get any rapid eye movement, so the whole expression you pass out and come to kind of is a true statement.
Speaker 1:If you do this for days, weeks, months, years, decades, like we've said, your REM might be affected for a very long time. When your brain goes oh, i need the substances to pass out or when you're sober, you might not be getting this REM and one or two things can happen REM rebound where your brain goes finally, and all of a sudden your brain is like a sponge. Give me this REM, give me this REM, and a lot of times people have vivid lucid dreams, or what I often saw in residential treatment is that people had a hard time sleeping And they might not get that REM sleep, sometimes for a very long time. Now I felt for the people detoxing, shaking and baking, sweating, vitals, all out of whack. That's tough, but when you can't fall asleep to save your life for sometimes multiple days on end, you can feel like you're going crazy. I felt bad for them, i really did. But where's the hope? Where's the hopes all?
Speaker 2:Where's the hope? Great question, i mean. It just brings up so much memories for me too in my own days of struggles. Yeah, again, it's about control. I cannot fall asleep. I'm sober, so let me just use to fall asleep, to pass out. Well, i'm sleeping a lot because I'm sober. Let me use things that will keep me up. Yeah, that's my hope. And I'm in my active addiction and alcoholism. Yeah, i mean, are there medications? or yeah, how do you help people?
Speaker 1:There are all kinds of medications and supports and Trust your doctors that have experience with Addiction to walk you through that. There's all kinds of meditation medications and ironically that was a Freudian slip There's also Meditations that can help with that, because when your brainwaves are going crazy and wild and All the sudden you can't escape your stress and your thoughts and all these things will guess what meditation can help you with? potentially push some of those thoughts out and and allow your your wave cycle to go from high-energy stress to Push out your thoughts, and then it can slow your wave cycle. Meditation wave state is the closest wave state to sleep. So I here's my suggestion, and I'm a true advocate believe this and in this I believe in sleep hygiene, especially if you're not sleeping. I've told this to many of groups and inpatient setting.
Speaker 1:Sometimes people would get really, really angry and say I can't sleep, and I totally get it. I could empathize and sympathize with them. But I asked them How many cups of coffee you're drinking a day. I don't know eight. When's your last cup of coffee? 8 pm. Okay, stop doing that. When you taking a shower right before I go to sleep. Well, you were doing two things that people do to stay awake. So part of the sleep hygiene or the structure is you know, stop drinking coffee before dinner. Take your showers in the the morning and not the night.
Speaker 1:Do the routine. Do a meditation right before you go to sleep. Do a meditation, do you fall asleep? But, most importantly, you might wake up every hour and not go to sleep, but to me this is important. It won't matter what you do.
Speaker 1:Wake up at the exact same time every morning. So if you're waking up at 8, always wake up at 8 eventually. And it people say, ah, i fell asleep five minutes before. Finally, i just want to sleep, okay. So your brain knows It wakes up at 8 am And eventually that REM or that slow wave cycle will start earlier and earlier and earlier, until your brain has this routine. So always wake up at the same time. Do your routine at night. Do the meditation, and I promise you Here's another example this two shall pass. But do the things that you can that you do have control over. Don't eat the high sugar stuff right before you go to bed. Eat your meal at a certain time before you go to bed. Do the meditation, do your routine. Always Wake up at the same time This two shall pass, and you will. I promise you, you will go to sleep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe my brain is too simple right now, but it keeps going back to those two things like hope and patience. You know good patience is the least forte for an addict, you know, yeah, but like, whatever you're saying is all about like trusting and being patient, because I'm used to, i don't like healthy coping skills because I want right right here, right now.
Speaker 2:The most intense things right away, you know, but you know things like diet, exercise. I like getting up regularly at this time. Just stick with it and it will get better, and be patient.
Speaker 1:It's it. I call it sleep hygiene and maybe I I give a lot of people a lot of reality. But, being an athletic trainer, when people were at their lowest, with the lead at least amount of control that they felt they had, and these athletes coming back from an injury or injured, i Instilled hoping them, i gave them structure, i gave them support, i gave them Guidance when they were at their lows and they didn't feel like they could do it, hope was instilled, patience was instilled. They did the action and the rehab and the treatment necessary and they got back to where they were, even better. Same thing with this, and we're just seeing how the brain affects This form.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, really good stuff. and the good news is also like we have examples. You know people who are further in their recovery And went through all this, and then that, yes, this too did pass, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:There are other things like physical coordination problems and I won't go in depth in this, but one of the reasons why Dry drunk was called a dry drunk back in the day was you would see people Who still had tremors and shakes or had balance issues weeks later Because they looked like a drunk. We often hear dry drunk today in terms of someone that's not working a program and Is irritability, frustration to anger and and so the behaviors of someone in active use. But yeah, there's the balance, the coordination, dizziness, those things, sensitivity to light, headaches and things like that can also be a part of this process. Remember your brain can contract and expand and go. What's my normal study state? It needs to heal. It heals bottom up, so the emotional, the emotional instability, the numbness Begins to heal first before we get to the top the rational logic and reason. So the emotions really do come back before making sense of these things. So treatment, support, patients, hope, guidance is all part of the, the recovery process. I thought so, ness.
Speaker 2:So yeah, just to conclude it all like that concept of withdrawal, you know It's a huge thing for anything like for anything, as in my old beliefs, my old limited personal reality, like, whenever I am Supposed to get to some kind of growth, i have to go through that withdrawal. You know, if I have a limited personality, limited beliefs and if I want to get to another level, i got a withdrawal from my limited belief and it's a very uncomfortable process But actually a good thing. So, like it makes me think of that. You know, like we're so used to comfort, i just want to stay in my comfort zone, even if the change is appealing. No, i just want to stay in my comfort zone.
Speaker 2:But notice that leap because I'm withdrawing from my old reality and it's uncomfortable. But actually is a good thing when I'm feeling uncomfortable because growth is happening in the background, you know, yeah, so it just gives me that imagery of like when you withdraw It's an uncomfortable process. The body is like no, what are you doing to me? You know I'm not at ease anymore, but it actually is a good thing and trusting that better days are coming is where hope is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well said, you have the insight, you have the support and the appropriate action, with Sometimes, the patients sprinkled in, is is a good recipe. Yeah, we talked about that in terms of change equation as well. So Well, there you have it. If you guys got any questions on this, certainly let us know. And Yeah, let me just do a little conclusion here. That's good. Obviously, seek help, reach out for support and stay resilient during this challenging phase.
Speaker 1:If you're past the detox phase and early recovery, by understanding and managing Paul's Effectively, individuals can continue on the path. If you or someone you know is experiencing Paul's or facing challenges in early recovery and there will be challenges Remember that you're not alone. Reach out to your support network, seek guidance from healthcare Professionals and, like we said, if you have a knee injury or spiking high blood pressure, you would seek professional help. So do so here, too, and embrace the power of self-care. With perseverance, appropriate action and the right support, you have the ability to overcome the obstacles and continue on your way Towards a brighter future. Thank you for joining our episode. We hope the insights and strategies discussed today will empower, inspire you on your recovery journey. Remember to subscribe and to our podcast for more episodes that tackle important topics related to addiction recovery, personal growth and all things health and wellness. My name is Luke, there's all, and we'll see you next time.