Empowering Families for Successful Addiction Recovery with BALM Program

"Can family support ignite addiction recovery? Join us as we talk with Jill Prevas and Lisa McDonald, distinguished BALM family recovery coaches. Jill uncovers family dynamics and their monumental role in the recovery journey, shedding light on denial, awareness, and entrenched patterns. Lisa explores how addiction amplifies pre-existing family issues, emphasizing the importance of a supportive family in long-term recovery.

Discover the BALM Recovery Program's transformative potential, empowering families and their loved ones. Explore setting healthy boundaries and navigating judgment and manipulation. Uncover the life-changing power of 'Healthy' unconditional support in the complex landscapes of family dynamics during addiction recovery.

As we conclude, delve into the transformative strength of detachment, hope, and resilience in addiction recovery. Witness how non-clinging love and healthy boundaries foster connection and support for families facing addiction. Explore the BALM Program's potential in equipping families with tools for their loved one's recovery journey. Don't miss this enlightening conversation, a comprehensive guide for families seeking strength and support in addiction recovery.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to a therapist of Buddhist sinew as we continue our compelling four-part series dedicated to National Recovery Month. Throughout this series, we stand shoulder to shoulder with millions amplifying the voices advocating for addiction and mental health awareness. But here's a startling fact. You were someone you know is most likely grappling with the consequences of drug addiction. Right now, in the US alone, over 21 million battle substance use disorders, and the ripple effect touches countless more Families, friends, communities. It's an issue that knows no bounds, transcending age, race and socioeconomic status. In today's episode, we dive deep into the heart of family support and addiction recovery, because the truth is, addiction affects not just the individual struggling with it, but everyone around them. The pain and challenges faced by families are immense, and yet they often go unnoticed. So if you're listening to this right now, it's because you understand the gravity of the situation. It's because you, like us, believe in the power of compassion, education and support to transform lives.

Speaker 1: 1:13

Today we are joined by guest Jill, previously a McDonald's distinguished BALM family recovery coaches, who are here to share invaluable insights into how families can find their strength and play a pivotal role in the recovery journey. Our aim is simple To provide you with the knowledge and inspiration you might need to take that crucial step towards healing, whether for yourself, a family member or a friend, because within the midst of adversity, it's support and help that light the way to recovery. So stay with us. Together we'll explore the path to empowerment and healing. Jill and Lisa, and always my distinguished co-host, is all welcome everyone. So thank you all for joining us today, and let's kick it off with you. Know what do you think of family recovery? And it's often frequently overshadowed or overlooked when addressing the addiction issues. Why don't we start there? What comes to mind when we see it on our end? But tell us more about that. Why does that happen so much?

Speaker 3: 2:22

Well, I'll jump in. It's an honor to be here and you know I do what I do professionally, but I also do what I do because I'm a family member that was impacted by this disease in a big way, and that's my daughter, who, I am happy to say, has 13 and a half years of uninterrupted sobriety Awesome, so, but I think the family misses it so much. There's a couple of things Denial Okay, I was majorly in denial. I was a high school nurse. I knew everything about drugs and alcohol. I was trained by the local police to do impairment assessments. If an administrator thought a student was under the influence and we tell our daughter when she entered adolescence, if you, when she started going to parties, if you come home high or drunk, I'm going to know because I'm going to do an impairment assessment.

Speaker 3: 3:16

She later told me, mom, every single time you told me that I was so high, I wasn't looking for it. I wasn't looking for opiates. I thought you know typical high school weed and alcohol. And she was a full blown heroin addict and I missed it. I thought eating disorder because she was losing weight. So I think the denial part, the fear that's underneath of it all, can be paralyzing and just and not knowing what to do with all of the emotions, and then family members thinking that they're in it alone, when of course we know none of that is true.

Speaker 1: 3:50

Yeah, so that personal piece. What about you, lisa?

Speaker 4: 3:55

My experience is on the opposite side. So I am a person in long term recovery myself, and when I look back at what early recovery was like for me, what I see in my family was that I had two parents who loved me very, very much, who felt very much responsible for how I turned out Right, and so if I didn't turn out the way I was supposed to turn out, then that must be there fault. So in my family what it looked like was that my parents were not able to face A that I was a drug addict and I also I mean, in the end I weighed 85 pounds, so it wasn't as if it was a secret Right, Like there was clearly something going on. Get past their own feelings of failure and that's true to this day Like my parents still try to take responsibility for my addiction and the road that I walked and how they should have done this differently and they should have done that differently.

Speaker 4: 5:06

And so I think that oftentimes substance use disorder takes hold in families where there is already unhealth Not always, but a lot Right, so there's already unhealth in my family and then enter drugs and alcohol, which for me was a solution to the problem, but what it did was it exacerbated the problem in my family and it requires I mean Jill talked about it denial right. It requires you to take the focus off of that person who is actively using or struggling with substance use and put it on yourself and turn that magnifying glass or that microscope back on yourself, and so I think that's really hard for anybody. But I also think there's this idea of well, if I just want to help my loved one, I just want them to stop using. I just want to help my loved one, and there's a disconnect between the understanding that we have as professionals that if you help yourself you're better prepared to help your loved one and what that family is going through in that moment.

Speaker 1: 6:18

Yeah, it's amazing how addiction makes the unhealthy unhealthier. Right, it really cultivates that. We talk about cultivating recovery, and you both give examples of the barriers that prevent families, whether it's the denial, the lack of awareness or just patterns that we have as family members. Zal, can you take us back to when you were younger and your family dynamic?

Speaker 2: 6:46

Yeah, family is a very powerful thing, which I think is great as children, but also quite hard to solve, because as a child I saw the world through my parents' eyes and it's also especially in Asia. Who do I compare it to? How would I know? So it's really it's a very nuclear, tight-knit family. So even if there is some dysfunctional going on, it's a very integrative and all-inclusive kind of approach that you guys do, which is, they say, addiction is a family disease, not just one individual. So I relate to that a lot. My parents don't have access to any of these services You're right about me getting, but they did go through a lot and there still is some kind of a disconnect. But better is a way of helping them too. So this is a really powerful approach that you two are doing. That's how I relate to it.

Speaker 1: 7:47

And you guys shared some of the flame or the compassion that got you guys into the recovery coaching field. Tell us more about the development of the bomb version of recovery coaching, if you will.

Speaker 4: 8:03

We've been around longer, okay.

Speaker 3: 8:05

All right, I didn't want to be the first one always starting Okay. So BOMBALM stands for be a loving mirror and what? And so Lisa and I are both certified in this amazing curriculum and that is what attracted me to the program to want to become, to leave nursing and become a certified BOMB family recovery coach because there is curriculum. So I got certified in it and then my families that I work with have curriculum that I'm going to help walk them through and there's programs and tools and all sorts of things and basically what we teach family members is how to mirror back the love and the peace that they wish to see in their loved one.

Speaker 3: 8:55

And if you think about that, when you're dealing with substance use disorder, when you're dealing with mental health issues, there's not a lot of love and peace going around. You know it's either fear, anger, shame, resentment. You know you name the emotion. The other big component of BOMB is that we're not only teaching them how to do this for their loved ones, but also how to be that loving mirror to themselves. And I know for me I had a lot of guilt and a lot of shame and I was grateful at the time I didn't have BOMBALM but I had ALANON. I was so grateful to hear that I didn't cause it. I couldn't cure it, I couldn't control it. That relieved me. But I was also taught you could contribute, and so in the BOMB program we're teaching families how to contribute to their loved ones recovery, and the way to do that is they need to change. There needs to be a transformation that takes place within them, and it's amazing to watch it happen.

Speaker 1: 9:54

Lisa, can you give us a little bit I mean as a coach and Jill, you mentioned curriculum. What's an example? One thing that I love about the BOMB program and working with BOMB coaches like Lisa and Jill in conjunction with family or recovering addicts and alcoholics, is that tangible tools that people that you work with can do. Lisa, can you give us an example of a key principle or a core concept that you guys do as BOMB recovery coaches for your clients?

Speaker 4: 10:29

Sure. So you know, the BOMB program is a robust program, but it really comes down to a couple of things. So it really is about taking responsibility for me and allowing other people, giving other people the dignity to take responsibility for them, and that's really hard for family members and so, as I work with a family and as they move through the BOMB program, there is a structure to it. There's a structure, there's an order, there is a simplicity within that order and that structure, and it is built on some very key principles of love first right. So everything comes out of love.

Speaker 4: 11:24

Love is the solution, love is the answer and not love like I'm gonna approve of everything that you do and I'm not gonna say anything to hurt your feelings, Not politeness, not enabling, but love that says I love you enough to stand firm right here in this place and love you regardless of what you go through and while you go through it. However, I'm not gonna participate in that right, which is a tension of acceptance of the reality of the situation, without approving necessarily of your loved one's behavior, and finding the tension in between there where you can sit and be okay to love that person where they are, and I think the other thing that is paramount is communication, and that's one of the things that I think attracts a lot of families in the beginning is everybody in what do I say?

Speaker 1: 12:29

What do I say? What do I do? Tell me what to say.

Speaker 4: 12:32

We have so much, we just need to learn to communicate right, and they're not wrong. They do need to learn to communicate differently, and so, within the Balm program, we have a structured course called the seven steps course that teaches people, step by step, a method of communicating with their loved one that will allow the message of I love you and I want what's best for you. I wanna help you to come through, because it eliminates the judgment, the shame, the expectations, the manipulation, and it becomes like this, really pure form of communication, just like a mirror, right, because a mirror doesn't judge, it just reflects.

Speaker 2: 14:31

Yeah, I really liked the abbreviation of be a loving mirror. Everything's all included in there about love, but also I don't know if it's like a made up term or if it's the actual term of like the mirror neurons that we have that we are always mirroring what we see, so it is a powerful tool too. Like in our Buddhist tradition there's a loving kindness practice where when you are radiating loving kindness, other people, whether they know it or not, they pick it up, you know. So it's better to originate within you instead of like copying the anger that the other person is feeling. So I really love that approach of loving mirror, but also, at the same time, that concept of I'm not responsible for somebody else's happiness, you know, but in the curriculum is there like a specific way because in a family that's a really hard pill to swallow that if my son is unhappy it's because of me. You know, and I need to do something about it that that might be a challenge.

Speaker 3: 15:37

Yeah, in the curriculum, in the seven steps. Specifically, the third step is being in touch with your own emotional landscape. You know, and what I find, and I'm sure you guys as therapists you know, most people don't know how to be in touch with their emotions to begin with, and so we're really, you know, we help to give them tools as a coach that's my role too to help them listen, you know, and reflect back to the family member. What I'm hearing like it sounds like I'm hearing a lot of fear, right, it sounds like I'm hearing, you know, a lot of anger right now coming up and getting them to talk about it and verbalize it. Because here's the thing, and I'll just talk from my own experience I was, I thought, as a mom, I needed to be the cheerleader, I needed to be up, I needed to be.

Speaker 3: 16:23

That's also my personality. But what I wasn't doing was I wasn't dealing with my own emotions. You know, and I learned that you know, if I don't deal with the emotions and I share with family members, if you're not dealing with these emotions, they're gonna come outside ways. And so then, when you're now in this place and we do it, we spend a lot of time teaching about the art of getting quiet, the art of meditating, the art of breathing. That's the very first step. And it's amazing because most families, you know when I meet with them and we'll start off with some 4, 4, 8 breathing, you know, breathe in for 4, hold for 4, exhale for 8, and I just do four rounds of that and I just see them on the Zoom screen like the whole. You can feel it, you can feel it yeah.

Speaker 3: 17:11

Yeah, and so then when they're in that place of peace and calm, their loved one hopefully will have a better chance of hearing them and then they're not as vulnerable for their loved one to start manipulating their emotions. And that's key, because my daughter was really good at doing that. She knew how to get me angry and she knew what. Then how I would come back and I would feel like the bad guy. You know that whole. You know Cartman triangle where you've got the victim and the rescuer and the persecutor and she would be the victim and really good at putting me in the persecutor role if I wasn't rescuing her.

Speaker 1: 17:50

So yeah, I call it emotional awareness, and eventually the language turns into emotional recovery, right.

Speaker 1: 17:57

Yes and that separates us as a species, where we're not a family of deer, where we are either in love, fear, fight or flight. We can be in more emotions than just that. That fine-skilled tune skill that addicts have of emotional manipulation, yeah, yeah, very cool. Yeah. That balance between providing support and setting healthy boundaries during that recovery process can seem so foreign and fearful. Like what do I say to do that? What? Just tell me what to say? As opposed to the skills that you guys are talking about, Are there any other common misconceptions or myths about family members role in the recovery process that you guys often come across, where people feel that they should too or need to do that and you guys help them identify? Well, maybe that's not your role as a loved one or as a family member. What do you think, Lisa?

Speaker 4: 18:53

I think when I come across a lot, because I tend to work with a lot of parents whose loved one is their child that's just the demographic of people that I have as my clientele right now I hear a lot well, I'm just I mean, I'm a mom, I'm never gonna stop worrying, or isn't that just being? Isn't that my job? It's my job as a mom, right? Or I think the other thing is sometimes, when you're teaching a family to figure out who owns a problem, so that they can see what their true role is, sometimes, when you recognize that somebody else owns a problem, you also, at the same time, recognize that if they make a decision, even though it's their decision to make, and those consequences are gonna primarily affect them and I don't really get to decide about it, that doesn't mean it's not gonna affect me, and so a lot of families that I interact with are really afraid of the impact of their loved ones. I'll say failure, but it really not that that means that there's a complete failure, but if a loved one makes a mistake or if they Struggles yeah.

Speaker 4: 20:13

Right, exactly. And then I, as a mom, am going to feel emotionally distraught because I have to decide whether or not I'm going to go bail my kid out of jail. I don't want to feel that.

Speaker 4: 20:25

So instead I'm going to nag and I'm going to try to control so that I don't ever have to get to that point of making that decision. And I think when families, really when family members can recognize that fear point that's when I have seen like exponential growth, because then they're owning their own fear they're recognizing that this fear is actually my problem, but I'm putting it on my loved one by trying to control them so that I don't have to make that hard decision.

Speaker 1: 20:56

Yeah, and I think you said it, that that fear leads to a behavior and action of wanting to control, to prevent. So when they have that emotional awareness and that fear, how do you help them with that? Oh, holy jeez, I'm doing it again. I've got this fear. I want to proactively prevent that from happening. What do I do? What do you tell them when that happens? Because it happens all the time.

Speaker 4: 21:20

That's where boundaries come into play.

Speaker 1: 21:22

Okay.

Speaker 4: 21:23

Because the boundary is there to keep me safe. So I don't need the fear to keep me safe. I don't need the control to keep me safe. I don't need the manipulation or the enabling to keep me safe or the anger, because I know how to set boundaries that are healthy, that will keep me safe.

Speaker 1: 21:40

So let's talk about that word for just a moment. The word boundary I think people struggle. We did a whole episode on forgiveness and what it is and what it isn't. I think people struggle with that. I think the same thing can happen with that word boundaries. What do you guys mean by holding healthy boundaries, Jill?

Speaker 3: 22:04

Well, and can I real fastest mention the fear part too?

Speaker 3: 22:08

Because I love what Lisa said as far as boundaries. But let's say, the family member isn't even there yet. They don't even know how to set the boundaries, and I know this from my own experience. Fear is typically going in the future. And so in the bomb, we also teach a lot of really good methods of how to bring yourself back to the present moment, because in the present moment usually everything's okay. The loved one has a no deed, the loved one isn't in jail, they are in jail while they're in jail.

Speaker 3: 22:41

And just so the bring them back to the present moment, and sometimes it can be as simple as focusing on the task at hand. You know, I'm driving my car right now, I have my hands on the steering wheel and I am getting ready to turn on the turn signal. And just so that you're stopping that fear loop and you're stopping that going into the future, the future in catastrophizing. And I was really big at doing that. And then I even realized one time I was future rising. I even said to my husband is that a word? Because I was future rising my emotions. I was even telling myself what I was going to be feeling in my emotional state like in the future.

Speaker 1: 23:21

It's insanity, it's crazy making so if we were that good at predicting the future, then we'd be rich.

Speaker 3: 23:29

Yeah, that's exactly right, we would, and most of the things that happen, that we think are going to happen, don't happen. They really don't. So for boundaries, you know, the crucial part and Lisa already touched on this is that the family knowing the boundary is for them. You're not setting a boundary to change your loved ones behavior. You're setting a boundary to keep yourself safe, whether that means emotionally safe, physically safe, financially safe, and so you set that boundary. And then the other part of that is leverage. And a lot of times I too work primarily with families that have adult children and there's usually a lot of leverage there. You know the leverage might be. You know well, if you know you want the car, then you know I'm only going to support that. If you're seeing Luke once a week. I've recommended that as leverage with some of the families that I work with. Or I'm only, you know, going to your only. We're only going to help you with your car if you're following the guidance of the professionals.

Speaker 3: 24:40

And here's the boundary that my husband and I used, and I encourage family members to use it all the time, because it's really pretty simple If your loved one is working with a professional and you as a family are trusting the professional that they're working with. Your boundary is we are going to support recovery and what the professionals recommend Period. So if they're pushing them, if a loved one's pushing that family member, I really don't want to be here. And you know, are I there telling me I need to do this and you say you know well what's your therapist saying and they're like, well, they think I need to go to you know IOP, after I get out of here. And then if the family can just stay firm in that, that's what we're supporting too. We love you. If you want to go figure it out on your own, you are more than welcome to.

Speaker 3: 25:31

And that's the other thing to remember is that word choice. The loved one has a choice, and so does the family, and that can bring a lot of empowerment back to the family dynamics and the dignity that the family needs as well. Instead of being the doormat I used to always say I feel like a doormat, I feel like everybody's always walking all over me. Well, guess what they were? Because I was allowing them to, I was giving power over me. And here's the biggest thing Do not, do not family set a boundary unless you are 100% sure you can keep it. If you know that you can don't set it, let's talk about some other boundary, maybe shorter baby steps. But because, as you guys know, you set a boundary and break it, you take five big steps backwards.

Speaker 1: 26:20

It's an empty threat. And then the attic brain goes oh, I can manipulate you, You're not. I can do what I want, because you're just you're all talk.

Speaker 2: 26:31

I'm not sure if how this is entirely related to boundary, but I did want to ask you about you know you mentioned about the needs you know like. From my experience and also from what I've seen, is that a big part of addiction or cause for the addiction is that there is an unmet needs that is to be met and it can be met through unhealthy means and then it's not sustainable. So is there also a process where the coaches help either the the attic him or herself or the family, identifying where their needs are and then getting those needs met, not being dependent on a person but just like through healthy means, and then like staying within that boundary that I need to have my needs met but not through the other person's happiness?

Speaker 4: 27:21

So we teach our families an enormous amount of self care. And so self care from all four perspectives, right physical, emotional, mental and spiritual self care. And that actually is really hard for a lot of families as well to actually take the time to care for themselves in a healthy way. Not, you know, self care doesn't mean that I'm going to sit up all night and watch Netflix because that's how I feel better, because it's an escape. That's actually not self care, right. But you know, when we first start to work with families, we actually have several different assessments that really do kind of put a finger on where is my self care right now, where do I need to have some improvement in my self care and what would that look like? And through the coaching process, once families become aware of what the options are for self care and the need for self care, that's where a lot of the coaching kicks in, because sometimes it can be really hard for people who aren't acquainted with self care to figure out what's gonna work for them. And that's where the coaching relationship can really kick in to high gear, because you're taking what you learn in the bomb on the bomb platform through the online curriculum and you're bringing it into your specific situation and specific to needs.

Speaker 4: 28:56

We actually have a chart that I actually use with families and with people in early recovery and the chart is actually called what Are my Needs and it takes you through, like these seven or eight key areas of your life, like spirituality, physical health, physical activity, diet, sleep I can't remember exactly what they all are and it asks the individual to kind of think through what are my needs in each one of these areas and, on a daily or weekly basis, what am I doing to meet those needs?

Speaker 4: 29:26

And that really helps people to self identify, which, when I was talking in the beginning about this idea of being responsible for yourself and personal responsibility, we don't actually ever say to people you gotta work on that personal responsibility. It just happens as a result of self awareness. They become aware and they take responsibility through the process of walking through things like the what Are my Needs chart. Or we have another tool that we call who's Businesses. It really does a great job of identifying is this my business, is this my loved one's business or is this God's business? And those tools bring about self awareness that those family members can then act on.

Speaker 1: 30:13

Yeah, one way I break that down for my clients is this right, is this wrong, is this healthy? And it's just being able to identify similar technique of okay, what's my business, what are my wants, what are my needs? What is healthy? What do I want to be healthy, because in this addiction toxic cycle, it's the addiction wants to say sick and the addiction wants to kill them, and anything it can do to manipulate the addict themselves and the loved ones and family members to stay sick and continue to use it's going to do so. It sounds like you guys are given a bunch of wonderful techniques to go okay, do I support their recovery? Do I support their toxicity and their addiction? How do I support myself? You know this is great. So I'm hearing a lot of Buddhist principles in here. Are you? What's jumping out at you?

Speaker 2: 31:08

Yeah, definitely, yeah, I mean, I feel like there's so many spiritual principles that are paradoxical. You know like that's also what I'm hearing too that family love is actually maintained and sustained through keeping things separate, you know, or staying within the boundary, although a family is like part of a unit. But it's kind of paradoxical. You know, if I truly love my because that's what I have noticed in my own family that it's very unhealthy and dysfunctional where people are really dependent on each other emotionally. So that's what I'm hearing as well. But in terms of communication too, I do wanna ask about that.

Speaker 2: 31:51

That, since the program's name love being part of it is that a big part of addiction or a big part of problems, dysfunctional emotional problem comes from a place of that I am not loved or I will not be loved, or if I am found out as exactly as I am, I won't be loved, or kind of misunderstanding that I'm not being loved, or I'm not being recognized, my parents don't care about me, you know things like that. There's a lot of like assumptions or miscommunication that needed to be dispelled, you know. So I wanted to ask about that too, in the families that you help, that, yes, you are loved. You know, no matter what, by you know, if you have a concept of your higher power or God, you know your needs will be met. Is there a part of the training and the education to the family member or the person with addiction as well, tools that can help kind of retrain that?

Speaker 3: 32:45

So for the family side, because I hear all the time well, I don't want them to think I don't love them. You know, if I'm setting this boundary, they're gonna think I don't love them and I, you know, it's teaching them that the love is the setting, the boundary. And here's the other thing, and I needed to learn this with my own daughter it is not my job to tell my kids how they're supposed to feel. It is not my job to manage their emotions. And here's the thing I had a lot of emotional pain as a child.

Speaker 3: 33:22

I lost my dad at age eight in a very sudden car accident, and this was in the 60s. There was no grief, and so I did not know this until I started my own family recovery journey with a therapist that you know. I hadn't dealt with the grief of my dad. But I also thought and this was all unconsciously, but I had emotional pain as a child and I thought my job as a mom is I was gonna make sure my two kids did not have any emotional pain. And so what did that do that put me in that rescue mode all the time. You know and this was also in the 90s when you know, they were closing down playgrounds because they might fall and break a leg, and you know you couldn't have all of that stuff and so.

Speaker 3: 34:06

so then I was in that and I'd been doing pediatric nursing. But so that was a big aha for me and it really freed me up that I couldn't, I could let my daughter know, I loved her, she knew that I loved her, you know, but it wasn't my job to make her love me.

Speaker 3: 34:24

I could show up and show that, show my love in the way that I wanted to do, and doing that was doing the program and doing the hard work, and that's how the love came through. And our daughter to this day will say if my parents hadn't done their work she'd be dead. I mean, she will say that when we share our family's story together, and so that was the loving thing to do. And the other thing that comes along with love is the whole concept of detaching with love. You know, and that's thrown out a lot in Al-Anon and 12-step rooms and I would hear that and I would be like what Lisa kind of touched on it.

Speaker 3: 34:59

You know, as a mom I'm like how do you? I can't detach from my daughter, right, my mother, how do you detach with love? And I love the concept, I love how we teach it in the bomb that families, you do your work and then you get to detach with love, not from your loved one, but you detach with love from the outcomes and you leave them up to your higher power. And there's something really freeing in that because ultimately you don't know what the outcome is gonna be, but I can tell you one thing and I know I share this a lot with family members you know I've been doing this since 2015. If I didn't see success, I would not still be doing this, not in this line of work and not dealing with the craziness that can come when you're first start working with the family, but being able to see the transformation take place and that it is possible and families can get back to that place of having hope, to where they have that emotional resiliency that they need.

Speaker 1: 36:00

Jill, I think that's a wonderful example and a great piece where people can actually resonate with what you said. You gave the example and explained. You put it into words and, lisa, I'd love you to piggyback off of it, to detach with love. Can you piggyback off of jail for us?

Speaker 4: 36:20

So I actually cannot stand that phrase either, because I feel like so what I tell my families is this that addiction thrives in isolation, and so what that means is is that a big part of the antidote is connection. However, you can be connected with someone without putting yourself at risk, and so that is really kind of how I start the process of beginning to explain to someone what it means to be connected, what it means to be in healthy proximity. If I were interacting with someone, whether family member or not, whether addiction is involved or not, who is often volatile and hostile, then I'm not gonna allow myself to be in super close proximity to that person. But that doesn't mean that I can't still interact with them. I can interact with them at a safe distance, right, and so detachment to me is like amputation, like I'm done, I'm wiping my hands and we're moving on right. That capital I intervention. If you don't do what I want, then I'm not ever gonna talk to you again.

Speaker 4: 37:38

Well, first of all, that doesn't actually work and, secondly, it's not healthy for anybody, because very few family members are actually able to hold that boundary. First of all, that's not a boundary, it's a threat, and so when families start to realize that they don't have to do that, that tough love isn't the only way. I can't tell you how many people come to me and they're like well, everybody keeps telling me I just need to walk away and I just need to do this and I just need to do tough love and they need to hit a bottom. And I'm not saying that that might not be the right choice for some families, because I can't tell any family what the right choice is. But for the families that I work with, that's not what they want. They don't want to be separated from their loved one. They desperately want to be connected. And so if we can teach family members what healthy connection looks like and how to attain that, then they don't have to detach.

Speaker 1: 38:37

It's a great example, or they?

Speaker 3: 38:38

don't have to amputate, right yeah, because I'm a huge amputator and that's easy at the time. Absolutely.

Speaker 4: 38:48

Me too.

Speaker 2: 38:49

Yes, great.

Speaker 2: 38:50

But, it's harmful. It's great that we're unpacking that detachment, because in Buddhism too there's all suffering comes from attachment, which is just a translation. But the other translation is clinging. I love that concept of that a non-clinging and clinging. I can love somebody with clinging, which means that my happiness is dependent on the result that I want. I love this person and I'm only going to be happy if this person is this way. That is a clinging love. But if it's like a non-clinging love, I can still want these things and those things. But whether they happen or not, it's not up to me. If it does, that's great, but if it doesn't, it's not my fault. So it's really helpful to hear you unpacking about detachment. It's not like oh yeah, I don't care, Disconnect, disengage, but it's more of like remaining in the healthy boundary and then operating from there. So I love that.

Speaker 4: 39:51

Well, and the other thing if I could just say one more thing about that is that in the day and age that we live in, with the number of people that we lose every day, every week, every month, every year to overdose, these family members need to have the opportunity to be able to put their head on the pillow at night and know that they did everything that they could and everything that was important for them to do.

Speaker 4: 40:20

And for a lot of family members, completely walking away or amputating doesn't allow them that option. Right, and so, recognizing the temperature and the climate of the recovery world and the world of addiction right now, it's very different than it was even just five years ago. I mean 10 years ago, I mean we wouldn't have even thought we would ever get to this place. And so we can't stick with just tough love, because where that might have worked 10, 15, 20 years ago, when you could shoot heroin for 20 years and then choose recovery, it doesn't work today, because nobody survives that long in active addiction, if they're using really anything at this point, because even meth and cocaine and even pot has fentanyl in it.

Speaker 1: 41:21

Yeah, we don't have the luxury to hit a rock bottom like we're used to and part of the message that I'm hearing. There's three recoveries going on Active use, trying to find out what their recovery is the loved one, the family member, their recovery and then the family unit's recovery.

Speaker 1: 41:41

And it's so complex and it's changing, and how do we meet where they're at and where am I at? And trying to simplify, that is what we're talking about, whether it's our self, love, what do I need for my sub? Boundaries are for me first and foremost. How do I have peace of mind, calmness of mind, with whatever they do? What am I going to do? And because of this complexity, there's a lot of relapse or not a linear recovery, measurement in this process. How do you guys and we're already hearing it, but how do you guys help your clients, the family members, with the resiliency and hope when it's not there, when they are down and out and they have that fear and their loved one just overdosed or whatever it might be, how do you help them with that resiliency and that hope?

Speaker 4: 42:37

For me, the best thing I can do is model it, model it for the family member and have hope when they don't, and then that's what I teach them to do for their loved one. When your loved one can't believe in themselves, you believe in them for them. When they don't have hope for themselves, you hope for them, and so then that's what I do for the family members.

Speaker 3: 43:02

Yeah, and I help them to stay focused in the solution and not hang out in that problem. Yes, be emotionally honest, share you feel hopeless like, get it out. So I'll affirm them for being emotionally honest and then help them. You know, talk about, okay, what are some things you can do today, in the next hour, that might help to bring your neuro pathways back to that place of peace and calm and being present and just right now and then offering the support and the other beautiful thing about the bomb program you know it's a one year online platform and, yes, we have live calls.

Speaker 3: 43:44

We have a whole recorded database. So you know I might encourage them. You know there might be a call, that interview that's come into my mind and say you know what, why don't you listen to this story, listen to where they were and where they are now? You know it's kind of like you know an alcoholic, the things they're going to drink well, go to a meeting. So, for a family member, what can a family member do? Like, do something that's going to help keep them in that place of hope and focused on the solution and not the problem.

Speaker 1: 44:17

Yeah, that the resilience and hope is is central to the theme of national recovery month, because when we don't have it, we need to get it from somewhere. Tell us more about the bomb program and all the aspects and the things that that bomb recovery offer.

Speaker 3: 44:36

Do you want to go? Yeah?

Speaker 4: 44:38

I mean, I'll say something, and then you say something.

Speaker 3: 44:41

Okay, that sounds great so much has grown.

Speaker 4: 44:44

So much that's what I want to say Like, and I get really excited about it, because bomb started as something that was just for family members and because the founder, bev, was a family member and she was working with family members, she built this program for family members so she would have something to work with her clients, using this to work with her clients, and it has grown so much since then.

Speaker 4: 45:14

And I'll kind of go back to what you said about there being three recoveries right, because now what the bomb has is it has recovery for the love, for the family, which is still the primary focus of the bomb.

Speaker 4: 45:27

There's a whole lot more there, right, but there's also aspects and programs for the loved one and we now have coaches who work specifically with the addict.

Speaker 4: 45:39

And so if you have a family member or a family who have a bomb coach and are in the bomb, and then you have a loved one or an addict who is in the bomb and working with a coach, and then those coaches are collaborating along with other professionals, it's like you're building a cocoon around this person and the scaffolding just keeps going out and out and out and you're just building this huge team of support for the family member and for the loved one, and everybody starts speaking the same language. So it really has become a program that's for the whole family. And so we have 12 principles, seven steps for the loved one or the. When I say loved one, what I mean is the addict, right? That's what in the bomb program, that's who we, how we identify that person, and then we have the same thing for the family. So the programs mirror each other, which is new over the last couple of years, and it has really made a huge difference in so many families to have that continuity.

Speaker 1: 46:49

Go ahead, Jill.

Speaker 3: 46:50

So what I would say is it has been so exciting to see the growth and everything that continues to get added. And you know, I remember what attracted me, not only to the curriculum but knowing that it's a one year program. You know, we know, with substance use disorder, if anybody can stay in treatment for a year or some type of continuing care for a year, the chances of long term sobriety increases significantly. So the family. Well, what does the family typically get? They might get a weekend program at a treatment center. If they're lucky, they might get monthly family sessions. They might have some experiential work tapped in there at a treatment center.

Speaker 3: 47:34

But for the most part, as we all know, the family typically doesn't get exactly what they need. And we know that family members neuro pathways get hijacked, just like the loved ones neuro pathways get hijacked. And so by having access to a program for a whole year, they can come in, they can breathe, you know, and then they've got this whole year and then Lisa and I, as coaches, we get to walk them through the wealth of information that's there. One of the other things that was recently added, which I think is just dynamite, you know we have a bomb principle seven, which is the importance of setting healthy boundaries. So it has its own principle. We now offer a six week class on limits, leverage and boundaries, and there's just some really rich material there. Lisa, you might have been involved in the curriculum writing.

Speaker 3: 48:25

I don't know I know you write a lot of the curriculum but it's very rich material. And so you know and here's the other thing One of our bomb principles is the power of getting support. And so when you're working, when you're in the bomb program, you're going to get support. If you have a bomb coach, you're going to have that support. I know for me and my husband we needed to have that outside objective person and team of people that we were able to go to. And so as a bomb coach, that's the other gift. You know, not only there's probably a therapist involved and there's a coach involved and being able to. You know, I'll tell my family members only come in alongside you on this journey because they need it.

Speaker 2: 49:14

Yeah, kind of following up on what Luke has mentioned earlier about recovery being a process, but also it's not a linear path. You know that is there tools. You know like if there is like a really good day count, you know it's a good measurement of success, so to speak. But also that's not the sole indicator of how successful the recovery process is. And in 12-stack communities people talk about progress, not perfection, you know so. Other ways, so like if there's like a family member who's doing the work but then the day count is not happening, other ways to evaluate the progress they've made. You kind of like do self-motivate that we're on the path and then keep moving forward. I wanted to ask about that too.

Speaker 4: 49:55

So, within the program for families, there are three primary paths. You have the 12 principles, and that's where you're going to find the bulk of the education around addiction, alcoholism, substance use, recovery resources and so on. And then there are there's the seven steps program, and the seven steps program really helps the family to internalize their own transformation. That's also where these family members really learn this new way of communicating. And then, with the addition of the new course, the six-week course, limits, leverage and boundaries. That takes one of the most challenging topics for families and really dives deep into it. Right, and so what we teach our families is as long as you are engaged in some part of this process, you are doing what you need to do for you. There is no guarantee that that means that your loved one is going to get clean and sober or stay clean and sober, because we can't guarantee that. But what we can guarantee is that if you engage in this program and you do one thing a day or one thing a week or whatever is the pace for you, if you are continuing to do one or two things regularly on your own program, then you are still in the process, and we also teach our families about the stages of change, and so we help our families to learn how to identify where they are in their stages of change because, like Jill said, their neuro pathways need to be healed. They're hijacked, they need to form new habits. There are so many things that the families need to change and if they can look at themselves through the eyes of being in a change process like we have.

Speaker 4: 51:59

Principle two is all about how change happens in stages, and we spend time there, not just teaching family members what it looks like for their loved ones change process to happen in stages, but also helping them view themselves through that same model when are you in your stages of change?

Speaker 4: 52:21

And I find that that really, when family members can really grasp the stages of change and begin to view themselves through that lens, that is a tool for them to be able to identify where they're making progress, and it also allows them to say, okay, well, I'm really making a lot of progress and not enabling, but I'm still having a hard time over here in acceptance, because you can be in different stages in different areas all at the same time. So it allows them to feel successful in the areas where they're really doing well, and we really try to focus on that part. We focus on where we're doing well and we really like build on the strengths. And as people act on their strengths and they focus on those things in those areas that they're doing well, the other things improve kind of automatically.

Speaker 1: 53:18

Yeah, and for the listeners, they've only scratched the surface of all the stuff that the bomb provides, so it's so vast, with the online community support, the individualized and family bomb coaching and all the skills and principles and concepts that you guys provide. Thank you for joining us today. I wish we had I try to keep it close to an hour so thank you so much. Is there anything you guys, during this national recovery month, that you'd like to share before we close it up?

Speaker 4: 53:56

Where there's breath, there's hope. Never give up.

Speaker 3: 53:58

And the power of being a loving mirror.

Speaker 1: 54:01

I got some chills from that, I'm not kidding. Thank you, guys, for joining us today. And as we wrap up this episode, we want to emphasize a fundamental aspect of the bomb be a loving mirror recovery approach. It recognizes that recovery isn't just about helping your loved one struggling with addiction. It's about your own personal recovery journey as well. Addiction impacts and extends far beyond the individual struggling with it, affecting families, friends and communities. Within this Adversity lies in opportunity for transformation and growth. Our heartfelt appreciation goes to you, jill and Lisa, for their unwavering dedication to empowering families through the bomb approach, renowned for fostering open communication and building resilience. Their insights and experiences really have illuminated a path toward transformation and healing. So, in the spirit of national recovery month, let us stand together as a beacon of hope and empowerment, reach out to those in need, offer your support and never underestimate the impact you can make. Addiction recovery is a collective journey and by nurturing compassion, educating ourselves and seeking the necessary tools, we contribute to a more compassionate world. So thank you for joining us and launching this profound exploration, and stay tuned.

Speaker 1: 55:22

And this was our third of four part series. We talked about the Recovery Awareness Foundation. We had a family member last week, a suicide law survivor talk about his suicide journey and helping others. Today we have Jill and Lisa and next week we'll be talking about what is treatment healthy treatment, long-term treatment, among a whole lot of other things. If you found this beneficial in any way, please share with others, as collectively we can find a solution to all things health and wellness. Thank you all for joining us. My name is Luke.

Speaker 2: 56:00

Thank you, lisa and Jill, thanks for joining us, and this is Zaw.

Speaker 1: 56:03

We'll see you guys next time. Thanks so much.

Speaker 4: 56:06

Thanks guys, thanks guys.