Navigating Life's Complexities with Buddhist Wisdom: Panna

Are you ready to unlock the profound insights of Buddhist wisdom, or Panna, for personal growth and self-awareness? We guide you through ancient principles that, surprisingly, align seamlessly with modern therapeutic approaches. We promise to equip you with practical tools and insights to help you navigate the complexities of your mind and emotions in your everyday life and foster resilience, emotional intelligence, and inner peace.

As we dive deeper, we'll explore how the principles of mindfulness and meditation can be harnessed to develop skillful thoughts and behaviors and to enhance self-awareness and emotional regulation. You'll gain insights into the ancient practice of Vipassana meditation and the Buddhist path of wisdom uncovering. We'll share how observing the three characteristics of existence - impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and non-self can lead to equanimity and a deeper understanding of reality. We've got you covered, from asking the right questions to cultivating wisdom daily. Tune in to this enlightening episode and take the first step on your transformative journey.

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Luke DeBoy — Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)

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Explore a mindful path with Zaw Maw's coaching—Foster balance, healing, recovery, and meditation in your life's journey through his supportive and wisdom-based guidance.

Explore a mindful path with Zaw Maw's coaching—Foster balance, healing, recovery, and meditation in your life's journey through his supportive and wisdom-based guidance.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

Welcome to A Therapist of Buddhists in you, the podcast that explores the intersection of Buddhism, psychology, spirituality and personal growth. In each episode, we delve deep into topics that can enhance your well-being and bring clarity to life complexities. Each episode holds a unique promise and addresses a common fix. Many of us seek finding peace and wisdom amidst life's challenges. If you are feeling overwhelmed by the chaos of daily life, grappling with stress or searching for profound insights to guide your path, if so, this episode is a must-listen. We'll journey into the world of Buddhist wisdom, known as piñā, and reveal how it can be a transformative force in your life, discover how the ancient principles of Buddhism align with modern therapeutic approaches, and how you can harness the wisdom to navigate the intricacies of your mind and emotions. But that's not all. We'll also provide actionable insights and practical tools you can apply in your daily life, fostering self-awareness, emotional intelligence and resilience. So, whether you're seeking inner peace, personal growth or simply a deeper understanding of yourself, this episode holds the key to a more enlightening and fulfilling experience. Tune in and we embark on this transformative journey with us. Zao, let's do it again, shall we? Let's do it. And I just want to say, as this is our first episode in October.

Speaker 1: 1:43

We had a really fun time with our four-week series during September our National Recovery Awareness Month and our first episode in September. We talked about recovery awareness foundation and just on how we unveiled hope. It's about not just substance use but about mental health. In week two we talked to Bob Swanson, a suicide law survivor, and his advocacy helping those with mental illnesses and suicide prevention. Week three, we talked about the family recovery and the family's recovery approach and then last week, our fourth episode. We talked about just everything addiction, treatment and what to look for in a treatment facility with Sam Behrman and it was certainly rewarding for us and I really had a good time doing that four-part series. What do you think?

Speaker 2: 2:36

Yeah, that was a lot of good stuff, very eventful. I'm glad we did that series.

Speaker 1: 2:41

Yeah, it was rewarding and it's certainly one way that I felt. Like you know, we've got this platform to highlight things and give back in different ways and one of our subtitles for our podcast is a collective solution to health and wellness and really highlighting a bunch of different aspects of recovery awareness month. I'm really proud of it. So, if you guys got any feedback for us and like we always say, if you like what you hear, share, because collectively we can help give them to you guys and you share it with others. So this week, understanding Buddhist wisdom, I'm glad that we get to highlight more of the Buddhist perspective as a focal point, specifically piñá, if I'm pronouncing that right In terms of wisdom. As a therapist, I feel like I often help clients understand the nature of their thoughts, emotions and behavior. Is that similar to the heart of piñá?

Speaker 2: 3:49

Yeah, this will be an interesting topic and yeah, I'm excited about this. But yeah, I guess, to begin with, I would say so in terms of, like, gaining clarity, gaining insight, seeing the truth of our own personality, nature of things, so penetrating into the deep, true nature of the way things are. I would say that is the parallel if a therapist helps a client see the truth.

Speaker 1: 4:19

Well, that is my intention, that is my hope. One of them. One of my clients have their own goals, but I certainly want them to see the true reality and insight of things. I often the pivotal role of wisdom. I think when the outsiders see Buddhist journey, they see wisdom playing an important role. Talk about that.

Speaker 2: 4:46

Yeah, so we can revisit what we've already talked about, which is piñá. It's kind of also interesting to call it Buddhist piñá, because, if anything at all, wisdom does not have any kind of ownership. Truth does not have any kind of ownership. The wisdom is the wisdom, but it is specific to the Eightfold Path. So I understand the intention behind calling that to be a Buddhist wisdom, but it's one of the categories, because there are three categories in the Eightfold Path and the three categories are morality, concentration and the wisdom.

Speaker 2: 5:21

And the wisdom is comprised of two factors One is right view and then the other one is right intention. So right view, specifically, is referring to the Four Noble Truth. That's where it comes from, but, like I guess we don't I don't know I want this our pockets, as usual. I want it to be as useful as possible. So I think there's genius in simplicity. So my intention is to keep things as simple as possible because, especially from the scholastic point of view, buddhism can be too complex. You know, if we look at the root of this word the sutras, the discourses, all the references I want to focus more on the instead of the intellectual, but more on the experiential knowledge, or experience of the word wisdom. So, yeah, so that's my intention, because you know, I think in layman terms, wisdom is pretty much the intelligence or the discernment to know what is right and what is wrong, and having that wisdom to know the difference, which is also a famous 12 step, or that is used a lot in 12 step of serenity. Prayer talks about wisdom.

Speaker 1: 6:35

Let's talk on wisdom, as, like you're doing. When I think that I have wisdom in my life, I have clarity, I can have a vision that gives me guidance towards a healthier way of living. I have clarity.

Speaker 2: 6:54

Yeah, the analogy that I've heard of I don't know if it's original to original Buddhist discourse, but I have this textbook that my aunt, who actually is a person who introduced me to Buddhism at a very young age, she gave me this book, which is actually published by the religious or the ministry of religion of Burma, and she gives this to me a long time ago and it has everything that is about Buddhism, all the essentials, and there's a section about Pinyas, or wisdom, and it uses analogy of the best way to equate or the best way to think about wisdom is light. Wisdom is compared to light, that it is something that enlighten, or, if there is darkness, wisdom is something that shines into the darkness to see things. So it kind of reminds me of that as you use the word clarity or vision.

Speaker 1: 7:54

I'm putting on my therapist lens here. It's one of the key reasons people may come to therapy that they need guidance or clarity on a challenge, an issue, a discomfort, whatever it might be, and having a therapist help them. I always say it's my job as a therapist to help them help themselves, and that's wisdom, and that's clarity, and that's that light, that 12-step. They talk about the spiritual experience and some time this of that educational variety or that aha moment, and it's that light bulb moment of clarity and realization and it's that insight to lead a healthier life, whether it's through coping skills or changes in their life. So I think we got a good idea of what we mean by wisdom. What about wisdom and mindfulness? How do they interact in your world, in your lens?

Speaker 2: 10:10

Yeah. So I guess, if we can I'm sure you're bringing up the thing about mindfulness, because wisdom can be very theoretical, very abstract, but how do we practice it? How do we get accessible? And practicing mindfulness can be a way of practicing wisdom, but to connect the two I don't know. I guess we can unpack wisdom a little bit too before connecting that with mindfulness.

Speaker 2: 10:40

There's, I guess, in our Buddhist language or Burmese language, there are two kinds of wisdom, which is, in Buddhism, ati-pinyā. Ati means to know. So like the wisdom of knowledge, like gaining information, to know things as much as possible. There is a wisdom in it, having information. But also there is nyan-pinyā, which has more to do with the intelligence, or I guess it's more precise to say like the discernment between what is skillful and what is not skillful or what is harmful and what is not harmful, more of an intuitive wisdom.

Speaker 2: 11:18

So to connect that with mindfulness is that like developing skillful thoughts and skillful actions. Because you know, that's also another definition or another original meaning of mindfulness in Buddhist term instead of mindfulness in the Western term, because mindfulness is remembering, you know, remembering to be able to bring to mind about the possibility of ending suffering in this lifetime. So, if we think about that, mindfulness, that way wisdom fits so well. Is that okay? Here's the situation going on, but what is it that I can develop here that will help me develop more skillful thoughts and skillful actions, which will build me towards development of wisdom?

Speaker 2: 12:07

I don't know if that was too complex of thoughts that I just laid out there.

Speaker 1: 12:12

Well, and mindfulness can happen through a meditation. Another form of mindfulness is I'm just coming from a therapist's lens, right? So when you say that, I think of well, what do I do in my sessions? I hope someone has a mindful perspective when it comes to their thoughts, their actions, their behaviors and context, to what's going on in their world, in their mind and their emotions, in their body. And with that mindfulness they can gain more skills. And the way you said it was actions, or I say it as behaviors, and our certain actions and behaviors can lead to change, can lead to an awareness. So I see mindfulness, yes, as this Buddhist way of thinking or being, but nurturing mindfulness or awareness can lead to a different skill set if we're not in denial or ignoring things in our life. So, yeah, it's still a form of mindfulness, isn't it? Being aware of what's happening and, as a therapist, these techniques can enhance self-awareness, emotional regulation, developing this wisdom of our inner experiences.

Speaker 2: 13:43

Yeah, I like that and I'm glad you're mentioning about that, because that is related to meditation too, because that's also why Eightfold Path is not, you know, each factor or each category is not independent. You know there is that interconnectedness, that about right concentration, right mindfulness. They all contributes each other towards wisdom as well. So, like, what you're describing is about awareness. You know so, when I in the Buddhist world, like when I do something that is harmful, it usually originates in the fact that my awareness is limited. Like there is a sense of lack of wisdom, lack of some kind of ignorance, not knowing so about with the mindfulness and with the meditation is that it's not discovering something new, but it's becoming aware of what's already there, and I think that's also really worth emphasizing. That about wisdom is that it's not something synthetic, like that I have to create and produce and then come up. It's more about sitting and waiting and watching, and then the awareness gives you that insight of okay, this is what is the right thing to do in the situation.

Speaker 1: 15:03

And having that, that wisdom that is there. You said it's not discovering. I agree it's uncovering. So it's not that it was never there, it's having that mindfulness, the awareness, and, whether it's conscious or subconscious, ignorance or unhealthy coping skills another way to say it we get to uncover this wisdom, or this reality and this power that's within to make, whether it's a change or peace or deal with suffering, and it's all through this wisdom that we have within.

Speaker 2: 15:39

Yeah, I think to be oh yeah, I was going to say like to be more, make it more actionable and to make it more practical. I'm glad that you're bringing up stuff from therapy sessions and therapist point of view. I think it's also it will also be helpful to kind of think about how wisdom can occur, like through what kind of actions you know.

Speaker 1: 16:03

Good, that's where I was going, so this is a beautiful thing. Yeah so let's talk about some practical tips for our listeners to cultivate this wisdom and our or their daily lives. Let's what comes to mind for you.

Speaker 2: 16:17

Well, my favorite go to now it is favorite but it used to be my least favorite go to when I was a teenager and in my deep addiction it's always the five preset. You know the morality, the, the five precepts of maintaining the right action. It's always a good start, without questioning, without trying to yes, it's probably a good thing to drink, or it's not a good thing to drink, like kind of debating should I steal, should I not steal, should I kill, should I not kill? Killing is good, but without debating anything, but really trusting the value of these actions and then doing that can be a good start, or it has been a good start for me in my experience, because what's right and wrong, or at least what's harmful and what's not harmful, is already laid out through that in my experience.

Speaker 1: 17:12

That seems so logical, but it's exact same perspective that I have. It's the action. So, whether we are doing this mindfulness exercise or meditating, or sitting with me or your therapist in session and you have this realization and what I'm going to do is encourage the client to apply that insight gained in therapy to their daily lives. Right and I come from a athletic training exercise and a science background that if my knee hurts, maybe I should walk a different way. If I have a headache, maybe the action is I need more sleep or I need more water and I need to hydrate myself. So in some ways it's so simple. It's probably frustrating for some, but I agree to develop wisdom into my daily life, to cultivate wisdom into my daily life, if I uncover it and realize it and have that light bulb, follow it with action.

Speaker 2: 18:28

And, as I mentioned earlier too, the wisdom category is comprised of two factors in terms of Eightfold Path, and one of the factor that is comprised of is right intention, or some people translate as right thinking or right thought, and what you're saying, or what we're talking about now, kind of reminds me of that too, is that when we think about right intention, there are three ways or three requisites or three characteristics of the right intention.

Speaker 2: 18:55

Is that an intention that is goodwill, like something that is loving and kind, and also intention of harmlessness, something that doesn't create any kind of harm physical, mental, emotional harm, since we're talking about actions and also the intention of like renunciation, which is a translation, but like renunciation is also the giving up of a desire, I think in 12 step terms. People talk about first thought wrong, and second, or the third or even the fifth thought is right. So like renunciation is also that. Like purchasing wisdom can be like okay, I am really angry right now and I wanna throw stuff or yell, but let me renounce that, renounce the desire, and then refrain, and that's also another way of purchasing wisdom as well.

Speaker 1: 19:49

So I'll get my spin on it. Right intention it's cultivating positive intentions. Having this positive and constructive intentions in life can be everything. We talk about this a lot on a lot of our episodes. Where the energy goes, the energy flows. This may involve setting intentions for personal growth, healing, wellbeing.

Speaker 1: 20:10

I worked at a therapeutic practice years ago where in the public bathroom there was post-it note people could write little notes on it and put it on the mirror in this therapy building and it was just positive things that people put on the mirror.

Speaker 1: 20:27

And when you wash your hands, you go to the bathroom, you see all this positive intention and energy and it was so covered up you couldn't see a reflection, which was, to me, a beautiful thing. It was just the beauty of positive intention as they walk out of that bathroom, whether it's back into their daily lives, work, into the therapy session and I often encourage people to do that at their houses Just put some positive intentions, whether it's you're worth it, I am worthy, I am loved, I deserve to be happy. Whatever it is, cultivating and putting that positive intention and that energy and healing and wellbeing can be huge. Another way my mind goes in terms of right thinking or right thought or right intention is challenging those negative thought patterns, because we can see this process. If that is so healthy when we cultivate positive intentions, well we should probably challenge those negative thought patterns that are trying to destroy us, that are trying to make us feel that darkness and fuel that internal critic. What do you?

Speaker 2: 21:36

think, yeah, that's really good and that's very empowering that we have access to wisdom, you know, and I like that idea of because in our, you know, bali has become part of Burmese language so much that there are some words that we've learned or that we've made it to be Burmese, and Pinyah is one of them, which is actually the meaning nowadays in Burmese culture Pinyah is education. People talk about Pinyah. So like going to the high school really good high school, really good, college education is very value. But then that kind of defeats the purpose, right, because if I think about wisdom, it's not like only if I go to an Ivy League school I'll have wisdom Interesting. It's not about, but it's something that we have access to, you know, but it doesn't matter about the more true tool and the more genuine we are to go deeper within. We have the right or we have, we are I don't know, I can't think of a word like we deserve, we're worthy of wisdom.

Speaker 1: 22:44

That's all you do. Yeah, the wisdom to realize we are worthy. To me, right intention relates to aligning with our own intentions and our personal values and our own ethical principles. F what other people's personal values and principles are? I love identifying what someone's who's sitting with me, what is their intention, what are their personal values and ethical principles Not what other people tell us it could be or should be. But when you can identify what it is for you and then back it up with positive intentions and aligning with your own values and your own ethical principles, you're going to feel good about yourself and having a more meaningful and personal life. That's wisdom, yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:36

Yeah, I like thinking about. I guess there's also.

Speaker 2: 23:41

I don't know if it's kind of synonymous, because it's hard to talk about wisdom without talking about truth as well. Wisdom, in Buddhist terms, is like seeing the true nature of things, like seeing the truth, which to me truth means something that is like, something that is integrity, harmony, you know, like something that doesn't contradict, is truthful, as in like it stays true to itself, like almost to the point of, like a faith, like faithfulness, loyalty, you know, all these words come to mind, but like it's also what you're saying too, is that when I really stay in tune with my integrity, there's wisdom in it that it's not about being right or wrong or proving somebody wrong, but it's more about what is true here, you know, and there's so much peace and freedom in it. And that's also where I have seen, in my own life and also in recovery community too, people who are the most happy, the people who are serene and spiritual, are not like saints, you know. They're the ones who know their limitations and their strength and being okay with that and then working on them, and there's a sense of connectedness that they're not better, they're not worse, but they're one of the many, and I think there's also wisdom in that too, in that humility aspect.

Speaker 1: 25:03

Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel Buddhism promotes compassion, empathy and non-harming of these kind of principles. Well, often in therapy I want to help people improve communication, resolve conflicts, you know, foster healthier relationships. And that connectedness and that compassion and that empathy, I think there's just so much interrelation and connectedness with all of it.

Speaker 2: 25:33

Yeah, I don't know if we're ready to go a little deeper, maybe a little technical as well, but maybe you can help me to keep things simple again.

Speaker 1: 25:40

Oh take us there.

Speaker 2: 25:42

I'll do what I can. Okay, because the other part, you know, there is the particular I don't know the translation, but people translate as insight, right which is the word vipassana, which is also part of the path that it is wisdom. There's a vipassana wisdom, which is an insight that is being gained through the AFO path or through this path of uncovering or spiritual path, is that the insight has specifically had to do with seeing the true nature of things and it specifically talks about the three characteristics of existence. So wisdom, not only you know the right view, the wisdom of the right view is seeing the for noble truth, but there is also that seeing the three characteristics of existence, which we've talked about before too. But I think there are two of them that is more relatable, but one of them is kind of a really foreign, ungraspable concept for Western society, I guess. But we can first focus about the first two is the idea of impermanence and the idea of unsatisfactoriness.

Speaker 2: 26:55

There's also wisdom in seeing that, which I wanted to bring that up because in terms of practical action, but specifically using a tool in the meditation practice can be very helpful, using these three characteristics, which is also what I was taught in my earlier practice as a meditation, to meditate or to practice these three things that we observe in our thoughts and our bodies and in everything. There's that three characteristics of nature of things.

Speaker 1: 27:31

Cool, give us the three characteristics again.

Speaker 2: 27:35

So anisa, dukkha, anata, so anisa is impermanence, that things are always changing. Nothing's stable, there's no stability, it's just an illusion. You know, things are always being created, being destroyed in is a very transient world. And the second characteristic is dukkha, which is the first noble truth as well, that things are always stressful, you know, unsatisfactory, there's always. Life is problematic. You know there is no perfection or suffering. You know that's dukkha.

Speaker 2: 28:09

And then the third one is the anata, which is what I was referring to as something that is hard to understand, but it's a concept of non-self, the absence of self, which is that, yeah, nothing is personal, there's an impersonality, nature of things. When I'm aging, it's not like the universe, is that? Oh, the universe. I want Zod to be old, just him, you know, like I want him to suffer from old age and just him, no one else. That's the idea of anata, which is which, if I hold on to an idea of self, I take it too personally. When I get old, when I get sick, when I go through loss, oh, this is happening to me. But the wisdom is knowing that nothing is really personal.

Speaker 1: 28:55

So my takeaway from that is relating it to wisdom. Wisdom helps me maintain equanimity during life's challenges. It reminds me that all things are impermanent, including difficulties, and having that awareness in that reality and those three aspects that you just broke down for us is wisdom, right, yeah, yeah, the light, and part of what I do as a therapist, I help people develop that wisdom to face life's challenges with resilience, to help them through those tough times when we don't have the acceptance to the suffering or the pain or the challenges in our life. That developing that wisdom and during whatever challenge or tough aspect that's going in their life or you know, I'll leave it at that leads to resilience.

Speaker 2: 29:58

Yeah, that's a good thing about life, you know. That's also a good thing about being in recovery and people who are sober. That's also where I draw the energy from, and the resilience that you're talking about is that whenever somebody goes through something difficult, and if that person has some principles that he or she can rely on, and then if he gets through that to the other side without losing the values and the integrity and sobriety whatever you're staying sober from, sober with you, come up stronger on the other side. What the best news is that you can use this tool again. It's like a muscle that is being built for the next time and you're all set.

Speaker 2: 30:43

For me, it's like a very self-motivating and reassuring thing to have that set of tools or set of things that have worked for you before and you go back to it, and that's a concept in my personal life. It's a concept of refuge in Buddhism. It's a safe place that I always go back to every time life gets difficult and it always gives me what it has already given in the past, like that safety, protection, guidance, light.

Speaker 1: 31:14

And I want to go back to something we touched on three or four topics ago the core principle of vipassana, insight, and to me that principle is to observe the mind and the world with clarity and insight, ultimately leading to, hopefully, a deeper understanding of reality and, hopefully, less mental suffering as a result. This wisdom thing sounds good.

Speaker 2: 31:49

Yeah, I want to add one more thing too, which is probably a sidetrack, because this is not well. This is probably specific to Buddhism, but for me, I got gifted or I got the opportunity of studying in the US and Western education and stuff and that idea of critical thinking which was kind of attracting for me. Especially growing up in a military dictatorship country, critical thinking is something very foreign, but I think when it comes to wisdom too I guess that's also therapy and accountability, fellowship, these things works too is that the best way to develop wisdom is also asking the right question. I mean, we have Google. Google can answer any questions, but there is also very something valuable about asking the right question. I think developing wisdom, too, can be more effective if we have that intuition or the right set of tools to ask the right question for a specific situation. So I wanted to bring that up too, which is not related to Buddhism entirely, but that's something that has been very helpful in my own personal life whenever I go through challenges.

Speaker 1: 33:02

For some reason that triggered a recurring memory for me as a therapist, with many clients over the years, specifically those struggling with substance use, and they often asked a critical thinking question and they really wanted to know the answer.

Speaker 1: 33:25

And they asked the question and I gave them a perspective, maybe even an answer to their question, but it didn't quite give them the solution they were looking for and they were almost even more dumbfounded or didn't quite understand.

Speaker 1: 33:45

And there were many times, whether I've been there, whether it's because of addiction, because of life happenings, because of emotions, because of development, where I often ask critical thinking questions and I didn't have the wisdom and find the answer at that moment. And every once in a while in my life and my client's lives and I've noticed this is, I think, just a part of growth that sometimes when we seek those questions and we seek wisdom and we don't get the answer as a therapist I've said this before and I'm sure it's made every one of my clients angry or frustrated I said it's right where you're supposed to be and that's annoying and it's frustrating. And even when we're asking these questions and we're seeking this wisdom and we don't have that sometimes that's exactly where we're supposed to be in this journey called life and enlightenment and seeking clarity, and sometimes we don't know yet, and that's okay too.

Speaker 2: 34:54

I love that you're bringing that up. I'm also laughing a little bit too, because there's a practice, right, it's about asking the right question but it's not about the answer. You know, because life is a question mark. But if I ask a really effective, right question, my life become meaningful, you know purposeful, and I don't even need to know the answer that there is something very subtle truth to that that asking the right question. But then chances are that if I'm not in a spiritual place after I've asked a question, I don't know the answer and I'm looking for the answer that fits my answer. You know that's a very limited way of living life, but the true way, or the healthier and more spiritual way, is to ask the question and then wait and stay open-minded about it, which is also what you're saying.

Speaker 1: 35:43

Yeah, and true wisdom transcends language and concepts. True wisdom is beyond words. Sometimes it takes direct experience and meditation and contemplation and patience and sitting and action. There's this guy oh, I can't remember his name, but he has a place it's the center of action and contemplation, meaning there's a time to contemplate and there's a time to take action, and sometimes, when we want to take action, we're supposed to be contemplating in vice versa. But yeah, and a lot of this wisdom and this reality comes through our experiential moments and the profound insight that transcends language, if you will.

Speaker 2: 36:28

Yeah, do you have any more thoughts? Because I'm looking at that Burmese textbook that my aunt gave me and I opened up that part of wisdom, and then there's a section that is talking about three kinds of wisdom which are in Bali and what I'm looking at, but also it's translated into Burmese as well, and if that's useful, we can unpack that a little bit too.

Speaker 1: 36:54

Give it to us, give it to us, give it to us. It is actionable.

Speaker 2: 36:58

So it says there are three kinds of wisdom. The first one in Bali. I'm going to pronounce it based on that Burmese transcription. It says it says same da me ya pin ya. That's the first one, which is translated as it is a wisdom that is gained through one's own intelligence, one owns thinking like an intellect wisdom gained from that. And the second one is tut da me ya pin ya, which is translated as wisdom gained through listening to the vice, or learning from other people, or knowledge, collective knowledge that's been recorded from before of the old ages. And then the third one is ba wan na maya pinya, which is to do with development, or through contemplation, through meditation, through cultivation, practicing wisdom gained through practicing.

Speaker 1: 38:01

That sums it up, doesn't it? Yeah, that's awesome. Can you translate that whole book for us now?

Speaker 2: 38:12

Yeah, I should. It would be a tough order though.

Speaker 1: 38:18

I think the only thing that else that jumps to my mind is compassion with wisdom, and wisdom and compassion are intertwined, or it could be or should be. I help clients cultivate self-compassion and empathy towards themselves and others, and the interplay of wisdom and compassion is just important because it's not linear. It's not a linear journey, it's not a linear action. Equal wisdom we're sitting still equals insight. It's a journey, and having that compassion and empathy for ourselves through this journey to gain that insight and wisdom is pretty important.

Speaker 2: 39:06

Yeah, that just sparked something, because in the title, you know, therapist, buddhist and New, there are things that kind of inspires me and excites me is that, since you're talking about wisdom and compassion, is that? I don't know if people already know this or if these are written anywhere, but from my knowledge, from my culture, what I've learned is that there has been many, many Buddhists in the past. I think there is like historically I don't even know how they record it because they're like different eons and eons ago there are different, many Buddhas, and there are seven of them, and then our last, the most recent Buddha is the Kodama Buddha, siddhartha Kodama, and he is the one who gained enlightenment through wisdom. He's intellectual, he thinks you know for noble truth. So that's one way of, but then at the end too, after gaining wisdom, like his heart flows with compassion, because it's just like a natural unfolding of enlightened heart, although it was gained through wisdom.

Speaker 2: 40:12

But the prophecy is that there will be a future Buddha and then that will be the end of this. I guess they call it Kappa, which is this eon, and then the world will disappear and then another world will appear. So the final Buddha is going to gain enlightenment through compassion. So that's a prophecy that the last one was intellectual wisdom base but the next one is going to be compassion base, and the name for that Buddha is. I forgot Arimitrya, which comes from that metta, loving kindness. Arimitrya is the one who has perfected the practice of loving kindness, so I wanted to share that little side note.

Speaker 1: 41:00

It's beautiful. I think that's an awesome place to end right there. What do you think?

Speaker 2: 41:04

That sounds good yeah.

Speaker 1: 41:06

Well, thanks, though, this was a fun conversation.

Speaker 2: 41:08

Yeah, thank you, and thank you all for listening too.

Speaker 1: 41:12

And in this enlightening episode I wanted to throw that word in there we embarked on a profound exploration of we call it Buddhist wisdom, but let's just call it wisdom or pinya for both spiritual and therapeutic perspectives. We discovered that wisdom, in the context of Buddhism, goes far beyond mere knowledge. It's about understanding the nature of our thoughts, emotions and behaviors. And here's the key this understanding is a powerful catalyst for positive change. From a therapist's viewpoint, we've seen how Buddhist wisdom aligns with the goals of therapy. It encourages self-awareness, emotional intelligence and resilience. It offers a fresh lens through which clients can view their challenges and provides a path to lasting transformation.

Speaker 1: 41:58

Our takeaway from this journey is that wisdom is not confined to any one tradition or practice. It's a universal concept that can benefit us all. Whether you're on a spiritual quest or seeking personal growth, the wisdom of Buddhism offers available insights. So as you go about your day, remember to cultivate wisdom in your own life. Embrace self-awareness, practice mindfulness and approach challenges with the understanding you've come at. May two shall pass. Wisdom in its various forms is a beacon of light guiding us towards a more fulfilling and compassionate existence. Thank you for joining us on this enlightening path and until next time, may wisdom be your constant companion on your journey.

Speaker 2: 42:44

My name is Luke and this is Zauh. See you next time. See you next time.