Sober Tips: Sobriety Through Holidays and Social Gatherings

As we usher in the holiday season, the glittering decorations and festive get-togethers can trigger the temptation to take a sip or two. Posing a provocative question, "How do you remain firmly grounded on your sobriety journey through the holiday season?" we offer you an episode packed with practical tips and strategies to stay clear of drugs and alcohol. Drawing from our experiences and those of our recovery community, we delve into the significance of navigating libations and social lubricants this time of year. 

 With the right plan, you can turn what could be triggering situations into opportunities for growth in your recovery journey. Sharing our tried-and-true tips, we help you stay focused on your path. No matter where you are, being honest about your sobriety, proactive, and cautious are key to maintaining your sobriety during these gatherings.

As we wind up, we take a moment to reflect on the importance of gratitude and thankfulness, not just during the holiday season but every day on this journey. Our hearts swell with appreciation for each other and for you, our listeners, as we look forward to wrapping up the year with you. Join us as we ride the waves of recovery together, learning, growing, and celebrating every step of the way. We wish you all a happy and sober holiday season. 

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Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
Zaw Maw — Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
Luke DeBoy — Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:11

Welcome back to another episode of a therapist of Buddhist and you, brought to you by the recovery collective in Annapolis, maryland. This is where we explore collective solutions to all things health and wellness. And today's all is the week of Thanksgiving and after Thanksgiving, for a lot of people it's other holidays, like Hicca and Christmas. We are in holiday season. So what I'd like to do today for our fortunate listeners and, if you listened to the previous episode, grateful listeners Today I want to talk about helpful, sober hints for the holidays. We've got a portion of our listeners that are either in recovery long term, short term, with family members that listen to our podcasts to learn more about addiction and recovery. This is the time of year which can be tough and challenging and stressful and triggering and a relapse trap for people in recovery, no matter how long you have. So I think it's a good time to give some helpful hints for the holidays. How does that sound?

Speaker 2: 1:16

That sounds really good yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:18

Let's hop into it. It's holiday season and let's do some hints and we'll kind of give our perspective on it and see how we can help people relate to staying sober through this time of year. What do you say?

Speaker 2: 1:30

Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 1: 1:31

Okay, like the 12 Days of Christmas, like the 12 Steps and 12 Step Program. Guess how many hints I have to provide? You are correct, sir. Here we go, all right, first helpful hint for the holidays, which can be used year round. So that's a good thing, but we'll give them now for this season Hint. One helpful hint. The correct response is no, thank you. So what I mean by that is a lot of times people are at business holiday festivities, whether you're going to your family members and they drink, whether you're at that Christmas or holiday party, a lot of times you're offered alcohol and sometimes, for people that drink, this can seem really challenging or tough to fathom, but the answer is no, thank you. It seems simple for people that might not struggle or have been there. But, man, that's important.

Speaker 2: 2:36

I mean. 12 Steps talks about powerlessness. Some people think that they don't have the power to say no thank you. But especially if there's a support group or people who you're working with or who are sober, that's where we get the power to say no thank you. Because that was my first experience. I was like people are going to judge me that I don't drink. It was as if somebody's going to pour a drink into my mouth. But when I have something in my hand it can be water, gatorade, red Bull Nobody really care. Even if they do care and give it to me, I'm like yeah, I'm okay. No thank you, it doesn't matter, it's going to be very empowering.

Speaker 1: 3:14

Because of that. For a lot of us, we couldn't fathom being at a work event or a wedding or a family holiday meal where we start to give reasons like okay, you don't have to say that you're on medication, you don't have to say that you're the designated driver. You certainly can, but you can leave it at no, I'm good, thanks. Well, for me, I got sober when I was 20 years old. It was so fascinating for me to realize over time, when someone offered me a drink, for whatever the occasion, my first response was no, I'm okay. And that it's the human innate experience. If there's any hesitancy to oh, come on, man, come on. I could sense that you have a little bit of doubt. Well, let me remove your doubt and say drink. So my hesitancy went from no thank you to no I'm good, thanks, and that made a lot of difference. The peer pressure wasn't so much and if they still did it, it was no, no, really, thank you, I'm good, and that can make a huge difference. So, tip one no, thank you.

Speaker 1: 4:22

Here's another one Put a chip, a key tag, in your pocket. It can help ground you. So there's people in 12 step fellowships and a gives out key tags for various lengths of sobriety, and a lot of times AA meetings will give out chips for various lengths of sobriety time 30, 60, 90 days, six months a year, two, three years and that chip can just be something that can ground you if you're feeling a little uneasy, whether it's a family event or a work occasion, man, putting your hand on that chip that's in your pocket. This is why I'm here, this is why I'm sober.

Speaker 1: 5:01

This is what it's all about Now. I used to have a grounding technique when I was tripping, so if I was hallucinating, one of my coping skills was have something that I know was real, and if it started to go a little off, I could ground myself with whatever that thing was that I had, whether it was something silly as a rock or something that was more personal to me. So I can certainly do that in sobriety, in a healthy way too, and for a lot of people it's that chip or that key tag that goes wait a minute, I'm okay.

Speaker 2: 5:33

Yeah, I love that tool because I literally used that suggestion in my first year of sobriety and yeah, it was super helpful because I was still going to college and there were a lot of drinking scene but I always had the chip, like whatever month I had. But then the cool thing about that is that when I touch it I become aware of the fellowship, because it's not like a chip that I just secretly picked up, but when I pick up that chip it's in front of the group you earned that chip.

Speaker 2: 6:01

Yeah, and when you touch it you're just reminded of, like the whole village.

Speaker 1: 6:05

There's power in that key tag or that chip.

Speaker 2: 6:09

Especially if you have a medallion. Keep that chip in your pocket.

Speaker 1: 6:13

And one side of the chips is to that own self be true. And that can mean a lot of things. And when you're might be a little squirrely or a little uneasy at a meeting or a family occasion or these holidays, that chip, that key tag, can really go. I'm okay. It can be a power greater than you. You can be true to yourself.

Speaker 2: 6:34

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:35

What's the next one? Next one bring someone with you, so, whether it's a friend, a significant other, a sponsor, a super person, if you're really that worried about the occasion especially this is for the people that are going to um for the holidays, home to family events, and maybe not your work party hey, who's this guy? Oh, this is Johnny. This is my sponsor. My work might not, but certainly with when you're going home to your traditional um holiday event. Bring a person that's supportive of your sobriety with you. Thoughts on that.

Speaker 2: 7:17

Yeah, that's good. I mean, recovery or sobriety is discovery and new self. Sometimes my friends or a new fellow in recovery or my sponsor knows me better, my new self, you know. But when I go back to my old buddies they can bring me back to my old self quite quickly. So it's helpful to have somebody who knows me as a sober person and then, you know, have that uh sounding board in a way.

Speaker 1: 7:44

I can't tell you how many people I know, whether it's um their sponsor, whether it's one of their friends in their home group, that to their, their family gathering during the holiday and certainly goes with them to a, a wedding or an event where it's like gosh. I don't think I'm going to be comfortable, but I really want to be comfortable enough to go, and I can do so if I have the the support of someone with me. Bring someone with you and if you're still not comfortable.

Speaker 1: 8:13

Here's a. Here's a. A. An extra tip I'm throwing in there Don't go If you're that uncomfortable. It's not worth risking your sobriety over the passive, aggressive grandparent or aunt. Well, you're not coming. No, I'm not comfortable. Well, they might guilt trip you. But guess what? That BS guilt trip is not worth losing your sobriety, agree.

Speaker 2: 8:43

Yeah, agree. And to piggyback on that a little bit too, for the previous tip of like, do dying own self be true, right, like, uh, that's also another good thing to take an inventory of that. What's the purpose of me going there? And then when.

Speaker 2: 8:56

I'm actually there, I can pause and then ask myself am I still here for that reason? And if I stay true to the purpose, yeah, I am here for that reason, for my children, for the event, for work, whatever it is If you can say yes to that, you're solid because you're there for that reason. But if you start doubting that, oh, what am I here for actually, then leave, you know.

Speaker 1: 9:16

And I certainly would explore this deeper with people and individual and therapy. But if you're solely there for the other person, is that healthy? Is that the healthiest thing for your recovery? If you're putting your recovery first and if you're staying sober and that's the healthiest thing, then this whole you know, codependent, guilt ridden dynamic it's a tough dynamic that we fall into with our family, old family patterns that are often toxic, which is often why it's fun for me as a therapist during the holiday season because I get to work on those family dynamics and I get to help people what's healthy for them, whether it's related to substances or not.

Speaker 2: 10:00

So, yeah, yeah, these are all good tips, good.

Speaker 1: 10:02

Keep it going. Next one you said this one, which is great already. As soon as that you're at the place, put a drink in your hand. If you got a drink in your hand whether it's a red solo cup with water, a ginger ale, a cranberry juice, a Coca-Cola, a rum and Coke version rum and Coke, just a Coke then they're not going to ask you if you want to drink. And if they do, guess what you get to say Now I'm good, thanks, oh, oh, you already got a drink in your hand. They don't give two shits if it's water or alcohol.

Speaker 1: 10:37

I assure you I still use this technique, for when I'm at some music venues, some of them are standing kind of in the close front and people are spilling their drinks and all this stuff and it's like a pacifier for me. Whether it's a bottled water, a Coke, that you know what, I'm good, I'm here for the music, I'm here to pick up on the vibe and the energy of the music, and whether I'm with other people that are drinking or there, it is my pacifier. It's just like my grounding technique for having a chip in my pocket. But when I got a drink, now I'm good, I appreciate it. Oh, I spilled beer. Let me get you a drink. You know I got all over my shoulder. I'm good man. I got a drink. I appreciate you, I have fun. So, especially with these upcoming work parties for holidays or the end of year work events that are often open bars, get yourself a cup of water, ice, coke, ginger ale, whatever floats your boat, put a drink in your hand.

Speaker 2: 11:43

Yeah, that's good. I don't have much to say about that other than the fact that when people want you to be there, they don't necessarily want, they don't need you to drink, but they want you to be present and I can be more present as a sober person and having that drink in my hand. Whatever it is, it doesn't matter, as long as I'm being present. People appreciate that.

Speaker 1: 12:05

Well said. Tip five drive yourself. It's your escape. Have an escape plan. If you drive yourself, it's your escape. And here's the beauty whether it's just making an appearance or staying an hour, you've got your own car. Or if you get uncomfortable, you can always leave. And here's an addendum to that Park, so no one blocks you in. So a lot of time with these family events or certain places that you go that you might be blocked in. No, no, no, no, no, oh no, be strategic. Don't be blocked in. You are your own exit. So you could go with friends or family members. But if you have any doubt whatsoever, drive yourself.

Speaker 2: 12:57

Perfect, and you won't be driving drunk, since you're not drinking, uh-huh.

Speaker 1: 13:01

Yeah, this is true for, once again, weddings. This is true for you name it, you name it. I remember earlier on probably my first or second year sobriety, that here in the local Annapolis area they would do Elkathons and sober events where they had meetings every hour on the holiday. And I told my my family's unfortunate. My family is supportive, have always been very supportive of my recovery and gave me an ultimatum when I got my legal troubles, so in every way they were supportive.

Speaker 1: 13:40

And I think it was Christmas and I told my family it was just my immediate family, it wasn't the extended family holiday piece that I was going to go to the Elkathon and I think I was doing some service, I was giving back right and we did the gifts and all of that. And I, probably around noon or one, I started to leave and remember my mom met me at the front steps while I was going in my car and she said hey, luke, do you really need to go to that meeting Now? Did I know that? Did I really need to go to that meeting? Did I have cravings? Were my family stressing me out? No, were my family members drinkers? No, I was a black sheep, so in that sense, did I need to go to the meeting? No, but what did I tell my mom?

Speaker 1: 14:31

Yeah, mom, I do, and part of it was because they were part of my family. They were keeping me, helping me stay so with the people in the fellowship that I got to do service there. That was part of my gratitude and thanks and appreciation and give back and connection. And even though my family was support, I know my mom was just loving me and was going to miss me on a holiday. I know that. But I told her yeah, I do. She didn't fight me or anything, but I remember being in that situation and that isn't with guilt and shame behind it where a lot of family members are but I left. I left. It was my time and part of me doing that and keeping that commitment was I don't know if I'm ever gonna be in a position where I was going to be triggered at a holiday, and so it was a good practice for me to leave when I quote unquote didn't need to, but I felt like it was a commitment that I wanted to do. I drove myself.

Speaker 1: 15:26

So even though I didn't need to, I did. I chose to. I set up that part of my plan. That is my first time not being blitzed out of my mind for opening presence with my family, so I'm going to just go ahead and set that as part of my day and I left.

Speaker 2: 15:41

Yeah, that's good. It's better to be proactive and pre-cautious when it comes to this, some kind of like automatic intervention, to just do it anyway, yep.

Speaker 1: 17:05

Good Yep, halfway through number six, what's that? Call ahead if you're traveling, connect with a member at the local club or the inner group. You get to instantly connect and you can still use and have that fellowship. So we're so fortunate nowadays that you can yeah, you can do meetings online. That's certainly been a silver lining since COVID. But, my goodness, call ahead to the local inner group and say, hey, I'll be in on one Wednesday or Friday or Thanksgiving. What's a good meeting for me to connect to you instantly. Got that connection of another man or woman that can connect with you. That isn't family or business related.

Speaker 2: 17:56

Yeah, and it's really good for the self kind of reflection or self esteem in a way too. When you will thought out ahead of time, that means that you are giving your sobriety a shot. You know that you care. So when you make a phone call plan ahead, that means that you care about your sobriety and that's a sign of self respect. You know that you're keeping yourself accountable.

Speaker 1: 18:21

All these things are proactive and the opposite of complacency. All of these things are tips designed to give you a healthy part that you do have control over. But we don't know if we, when we're, you know, at the place where someone offers us a drink and all of a sudden, we don't say no, thank you, and we have hesitancy. We don't know if we're going to be at the place where, all of a sudden, I got this strong desire to drink or drug and I don't have a vehicle Right. Those are some things that were powerless over. So this is an example of well, let's be proactive and do some things that you do have healthy control and power over to increase your chances of getting farther away from a drink or drug.

Speaker 2: 19:09

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:10

Yeah, here's another one we said. Call ahead Number seven bring reading material, whether it's recovery related, whether it's big book, the basic text. Bring recovery related material, whether it's the grapevine, you name it, whether it's meditation related, gratitude related. Bring healthy, positive solution, recovery oriented stuff that can feel like either a meeting on the go or it can feel like, ah, this is grounding me and settering me and I might not have a buddy to go with me on that trip or to that family. This is not possible, but I can use this just like a chip or a tag can be tangible. Reading some good words can be tangible too, whether it's the Bible for people, whether it's a Dharma reading you name it.

Speaker 2: 20:07

Yeah, that's a good tip too. It just makes me think of like how many times have I gotten drunk because I was just bored and I didn't?

Speaker 2: 20:13

have anything to do. So, yeah, that's been coming up in my, you know, interaction with people in recovery lately, about the fact that recovery or sobriety is not about not doing, you know, but it's about doing something else. So it's not about yeah. So I like that because no idle time, if I'm just not drinking, then just a ticking bomb, you know. So, feeling the time with things that are meaningful, things that are good, like reading spiritual literature, things like that, that's much, a much a healthier, practical way to stay sober.

Speaker 1: 20:48

Absolutely. Here's the next one, number eight call people, don't text people. Call people, especially during this time of the year, during the holidays. This is a really important time. We text too much, right? It's hard to if you are struggling and you say, hey, how are you doing? I don't know the tone of your texts that you're struggling and you're reaching out. It's so important to hear the voice. That way I can tell if you're in trouble. I can connect to the voice through the emotion. But man, you're just saying I'm good. But if you say that on a phone call and I've been working with you and connecting with you and I know you bullshit what's really going on. So call people, not when you feel like you have to get in the habit of doing it, when you don't have to just call. It's a connection. It's a connection piece, do you agree?

Speaker 2: 21:48

I agree. But the flip side too is that you might be calling someone to get help but you never know where that person is. I've had so many examples where I will call somebody to get help, but I'm actually they are in the place where they need a phone call, so never know. So don't overthink. When you want to call, just call.

Speaker 1: 22:06

Absolutely. Don't wait for the craving, don't wait for the stress or the trigger, especially if you're traveling, and be proactive and talk to these people beforehand. And I always tell people hey, before you get to your family's house, before you get to that business meeting, call me on the ride there. So that way, talking about another, putting your mindset in the right place, you're getting in that healthy, to that known self, be true, getting away from fear, getting closer to connection and love and good place. So that way it should hit the fan. It's a whole lot easier because, hey, we just had a conversation five minutes to two hours ago and it's so much easier to do that when you already set up the conditions to that be okay. You're farther away from the addictive mindset.

Speaker 1: 22:58

This is true whether you have 20 years or 20 minutes, right, yeah, good, let's see where are we at Number nine get out of yourself. Do something for someone else, whether it's go to food banks, cook for others, run errands for the elderly, help your family, go to the local intergroup or you name it. Get outside of yourself. Get away from the resentment. The woe is me, the poor is me. Get outside of yourself in a healthy way, and this is the time of year and season. Why we cultivate that? Because it's helpful.

Speaker 2: 23:47

Yeah, and there's no shortage of that, of like help, you know. So I mean. And then if you do already have like a relationship with a part greater than you, or God or whatever, it's always good to ask that question too, like how can I help? Show me how I can help, and there's always something.

Speaker 1: 24:05

It's freeing, oh, it's freeing. It's yeah, we highlighted a lot of that in the last episode. But get outside of yourself, help others and don't expect anything in return. And if you do, it works out wonderfully. Number 10, it's an acronym HALT. So the tip is the acronym is hungry, angry, lonely, tired.

Speaker 1: 24:30

And I think it's fair to say if you have two of these if you're hungry and isolated and lonely, or if you're angry and lacking sleep, you're setting up the dynamics for whether it's resentment, whether it's irritability, whether it's cravings, you're not in a good place. So be very mindful and it's important to not be lonely this time of year. And if you're not angry, you might be sad and anxious or depressed or down or grief during this time of year. So it might not be angry but it might be some other uncomfortable emotions. And if that pairs well with loneliness or isolation, well we get to get in our head and that's not always a good place to be and then our appetite and might not be hungry, but we might eat like shit and cope because we are sad or depressed or angry because of this time of year. So if you got two of these things going on, reach out to people, whether it's your fellowship, whether it's therapy, whether it's getting outside of yourself in a healthy way, whether it's giving back. Two of these four things can be iffy.

Speaker 2: 25:49

Yeah, awareness and action can be so powerful because, yeah, it's also a way of self-compassion too. If you're craving and if you're feeling irritable, and then if you're in this mode of hungry, angry, lonely, tired, you're not being fair to yourself, because it's not your fault that you want to drink, because there are some basic needs, so, but at the same time, like calling somebody can be a good way to snap out of it, because the other person will be like have you eaten anything in the past 12 hours or are you tired? Whatever it is, as soon as we become aware of it especially with these things how hungry, angry, lonely, tired there's an action that we can take right away. It's not like we're starving in a desert and we cannot even eat, but as soon as I realize I'm tired, I should take a nap. Or as soon as I realize I'm hungry, well, I should go buy food, something good for me. So these are all very action, awareness, action right away.

Speaker 1: 26:47

Yeah, there's healthy ways to act and react in a healthy way when these things happen, good job Are we at 10, 11?

Speaker 1: 26:54

So, yeah, I said that one was a bonus, but it was actually number 11, which is if you don't feel comfortable, don't go. There'll be other years, there'll be other seasons. Your family may not understand, guess what. Grandma may never understand, auntie may never understand, that's okay. But your recovery and your health and your sanity and your serenity and your peace of mind does so. That's the hard thing, and sometimes we need support and have and to have the courage to do that, because we might know there's, we might hear that every year that you didn't come in 2023 to Thanksgiving or Christmas or you name it, and you might hear that every year and that might make you quote unquote want to drink too. But guess what, if you and your support go, it's not worth it. Don't go. Let people help you, empower you to do that Right.

Speaker 2: 27:48

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 27:49

Lastly, number 12, the final one. What is it? Prayer or a higher power? When it comes down between you and a drink, or using however you want to say, it, connect to something greater than you. That power can be through the form of a phone call, it can be through a Meditation practice, it can be through a mantra, a chant, a prayer, a God, please help me. It doesn't matter what it is. But when it's you and a jam, and You're at that jumping off point in terms of using calling that number, picking up that, that, that drug dealer, picking up that dope cop and drinking, it's time to use something greater than you and and prayers one way to do it.

Speaker 2: 28:41

Yeah, prayer is powerful, you know. I mean, I'm a Buddhist and for a non-theistic approach like for me, I do use prayer a lot, without any kind of Religious attitude behind it. But for me, prayer is all about changing thoughts. But when I pray, especially like when I verbally say something, it's like a sign, and a sign to the universe that, yes, I need help. What should I do, you know, show me the way. Or repeating something over and over again can be a prayer too, because People talk about higher power, but, like, whatever you're thinking about right in this moment, that's your higher power you know, and we can kind of rewire that by prayer.

Speaker 2: 29:19

That, or sometimes the best way is to, yeah, reach out or go out for a walk, whatever it is something that's physical, but prayer is powerful, positive intention, you know, change of thoughts or asking for guidance, acting as civil or whatever works, but just do something. You know we don't need to be passive.

Speaker 1: 29:40

So I, there's this lady with many years in sobriety here. Her name is Jan. This is her list that she would often share about this time every year and she would always give an example about her sponsor. And her sponsor was going to go to Dallas with family and, and Jan was her sponsor, and Jan outright told her don't go. She had, she had a lot more time and maybe some sound of some mind, peace of mind, and she said I Wouldn't go if I were. You guess what? The, the Sponsy went and she got a call from her sponsor and she was at the airport and she said to Jan Jan, I think I'm gonna drink and and of course, jan, she's a Boston lady. And she says, well, there's not much I can do for you right now, but I will tell you to do this. If I were you, I would pray. And she had a belief in a higher power and Said I love you, I hope you do okay and whether you get on that plane or not, or you drink, I, I hope, before you do any of that, you pray and Love you. Hung up the phone.

Speaker 1: 30:53

Much time went by, maybe a day went by and she said well, what happened? What'd you do, said Jan. After that, I went into that bathroom, I Went into that stall, I closed the door and I got on my knees and I prayed and I'm still sober. So that power of a higher power, in that dirty bathroom stall and that airport and and as she connected to that power greater than ourselves, ourselves and she, she stayed sober and she she got the power through that good, orderly direction, through Jan, in that moment too. So it's a powerful thing and luckily she recoiled as if it were a hot flame and didn't get attracted to it and wreckage of family and the downward spiral that often happens to us when we we take that poison again.

Speaker 1: 31:49

So that's a good one to close on that, that connection of that power grid in themselves. Whatever that is for us, we don't have to wait for that last second, that it can work through a lot of these other examples that we gave. You know it's, it's the support, it's that good, orderly direction and we hope these tools were. We're certainly beneficial To you and if, if you think someone, what else, would benefit from them, please, please share. Please share so other people can. It can help other people, you know.

Speaker 2: 32:21

Yeah, these are all good stuff. I especially like the, the final tip, final hint of prayer, because there are just so many unseen forces at work and they have their best interest in you. And that's what happened when you pray. Just reach out whatever we're possible, and Wholeheartedly, even if you don't mean it, just say it might just help me. Take this obsession away from me, you know. Take this away. Just show me what I need to do, I'll do it, you know.

Speaker 1: 32:48

I have a close friend of mine that was Very doubtful of whatever God is and he started every Talk or prayer to whom it may concern. I need your help. To him it may concern. I need your help. I think I'm going to drink and I love it. Right, there's there's no wrong way. Yeah at least not in my mind.

Speaker 2: 33:11

For my experience, it's the one final instruction, which is I've heard it, you know, at a meeting and it spoke to me recently about prayer is that this lady was struggling and then she doesn't believe in God and her sponsor said something that I don't even know how to pray. What do I do? She said that just say Honestly what comes to your mind out loud. And then what she said was that this is too much, I cannot do it, you know. And then prayer can be as simple as that, like whatever comes to your mind in your, because you know to die, it's own self. Be true again right. Like as alcoholics and addicts were so good as self-deception. But as soon as we connect to the truth, like everything opens up. Even if I say that I really want to drink right now, please help me. You know that's, that's what's from my heart, I mean it, you know, and the universe responds to that. So Just wanted to conclude with that thought. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 34:07

Thank you, zo. It's a I'm thankful for you to sit next to you and all these episodes that we do. I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving coming up and all the listeners do too, and Look forward to wrapping up the year for the last couple episodes before the end of 2023. Yeah good stuff. Okay, my name is Luke. This is all. Happy holidays. See you next time.