Ever wondered why cravings can feel so intense and irresistible? Join us as we unravel the mystery behind these powerful urges, dissecting psychological triggers and social dynamics that fuel them. We'll uncover the true face of 'white knuckling' and explore how self-reliance in recovery can sometimes backfire, intensifying cravings and leading to possible relapse.
We'll bust the bubble of overconfidence and ego, revealing how they can become pitfalls in the road to recovery. We'll throw light on the importance of a strong support network, and why acknowledging and working on our character flaws is integral to maintaining sobriety. Brace yourselves as we delve into the festive season - a time notorious for triggering cravings. We'll equip you with practical strategies to navigate through this challenging period and hold your ground in recovery.
Have you ever felt like you are floating on a 'pink cloud'? We dissect this phenomenon in recovery and discuss how feelings of euphoria can sometimes mask underlying challenges. We'll also share insights into the concept of 'F.E.A.R.' (False Evidence Appearing Real), and how this form of denial can impede the treatment of addiction. Finally, we'll open the door to an in-depth discussion on resentment - a dangerous fuel for relapse. By naming and acknowledging our emotions, we can better tackle the feelings driving our resentments, enabling us to maintain our sobriety. We're excited for this journey of self-discovery with you. Tune in, and let's walk this path together.
Visit our website!
Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
Zaw Maw — Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
Luke DeBoy — Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
New Episodes are released every Monday.
Please send your questions to: luke@recoverycollectivemd.com
Thanks for listening, and please subscribe/comment/review/follow/like; if you think others would benefit from the podcast episode, share with others, as COLLECTIVELY, we can find solutions to all things health and wellness.
The episodes contain content, including information provided by guests, intended for perspective, informational, and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, legal, or other advice. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you have a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 or 9-8-8
Explore a mindful path with Zaw Maw's coaching—Foster balance, healing, recovery, and meditation in your life's journey through his supportive and wisdom-based guidance.
Ever wondered why cravings can feel so intense and irresistible? Join us as we unravel the mystery behind these powerful urges, dissecting psychological triggers and social dynamics that fuel them. We'll uncover the true face of 'white knuckling' and explore how self-reliance in recovery can sometimes backfire, intensifying cravings and leading to possible relapse.
We'll bust the bubble of overconfidence and ego, revealing how they can become pitfalls in the road to recovery. We'll throw light on the importance of a strong support network, and why acknowledging and working on our character flaws is integral to maintaining sobriety. Brace yourselves as we delve into the festive season - a time notorious for triggering cravings. We'll equip you with practical strategies to navigate through this challenging period and hold your ground in recovery.
Have you ever felt like you are floating on a 'pink cloud'? We dissect this phenomenon in recovery and discuss how feelings of euphoria can sometimes mask underlying challenges. We'll also share insights into the concept of 'F.E.A.R.' (False Evidence Appearing Real), and how this form of denial can impede the treatment of addiction. Finally, we'll open the door to an in-depth discussion on resentment - a dangerous fuel for relapse. By naming and acknowledging our emotions, we can better tackle the feelings driving our resentments, enabling us to maintain our sobriety. We're excited for this journey of self-discovery with you. Tune in, and let's walk this path together.
Visit our website!
Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
Zaw Maw — Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
Luke DeBoy — Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
New Episodes are released every Monday.
Please send your questions to: luke@recoverycollectivemd.com
Thanks for listening, and please subscribe/comment/review/follow/like; if you think others would benefit from the podcast episode, share with others, as COLLECTIVELY, we can find solutions to all things health and wellness.
The episodes contain content, including information provided by guests, intended for perspective, informational, and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, legal, or other advice. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you have a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 or 9-8-8
Explore a mindful path with Zaw Maw's coaching—Foster balance, healing, recovery, and meditation in your life's journey through his supportive and wisdom-based guidance.
Welcome back to A Therapist of Budiston, brought to you by the Recovery Collective in Annapolis, maryland. We're doing part two of our I guess two-part series, all in terms to how people set themselves up for cravings and the control that they actually do have to hopefully prevent this obsession, this satiation, this desire to use, and how to avoid it, and then, if you have these cravings, how to minimize and reduce these cravings. So per usual, we're brought to you by the Recovery Collective in Annapolis, maryland. There's a link in the episode notes. I encourage you guys to check it out, just like we have this awesome content with podcasts. Just about every specialty page has articles and blogs that are written by us, including Zall, with a bunch of his meditation-focused and recovery and life coaching pages. So feel free to check out. If you want some good reading, check out all the stuff that. Zall's a really good writer, as you can imagine. He is our MVP, so I'm going to streak saying that, zall, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't dislike it. Well, yeah, it's a fitting topic, so let's dive right into it. It's a time of year.
Speaker 1:It's a holiday season and can be a very triggering period for people in recovery. So whether you're someone in recovery yourself, a loved one, you're welcome to listen and you can certainly find these two episodes valuable. Get ready for an insightful journey as we uncover the psychological triggers and social dynamics that play a real, crucial role in shaping irresistible cravings. Whether you're on a quest for a personal wellness or simply intrigued by the complexities of human behavior when it comes to addiction, this episode is tailor-made for you. So let's unravel the layers of cravings and discover the keys of mastering them. Here we go. We knocked out the physiological aspects, so let's jump right into the psychological. When I say psychological, I simplify it by saying mental and emotional, how people think and how people feel. So there's some ways we set ourselves up for that. We ever heard this saying white knuckling Zall. Yeah, when you hear people say that man, he's white knuckling his recovery, what does that mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, flexing your muscle to do it self-well-way, very willfully relying on your own limited powers.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Think about the visualization that someone has a craving and what sometimes happens for people is the best and worst thing happens. They have a craving, they don't say anything and they get through it. Well, that's the best thing. Nothing happened. But it could turn into the worst thing. And what I mean by that is, yeah, that craving might have been two, three, four or five minutes and they got through it. It was a little bit more than a fleeting thought. Then guess what happens. Another craving happens and it might be a little stronger and a little longer, and then no one says anything to anyone. So it's a little more intense. And then the best and worst thing happens nothing happened.
Speaker 1:But what tends to happen with addiction? Well, maybe the next time or the second or third craving after that it's a little bit more intense and a little stronger than people all of a sudden begin to hold into their couch or their armchairs and they're squeezing on for dear life and you can see the whites of their knuckles. So this is opposite of what 12 steps say. If you're getting through a craving by yourself, you're saying you can manage this craving, that you are not powerless over this craving, and that might be true the first, 7th, 10th, 15th time. But if you continue to hold on and do it yourself and keep it to yourself, you're setting yourself up for really stronger cravings, more cravings, the opposite of AA's or 12 step version of powerlessness and unmanageability.
Speaker 2:It's a muscle either way. The more I give into it or the more I don't. The willingness part is also a muscle that I let it go. I get better next time. Same is true for craving that. Oh yeah, this might not be that strong this time, but if I'd powered through it without asking for any help from anything, it kicks in next time and it's stronger because it really weakens our will. It's our personal power I don't know if will is the right word our personal power, self-will or ego.
Speaker 1:Or, to me, the cringiest thing that I would hear as a addiction counselor in a treatment facilities, when someone would say I'm good, I got this Now. Confidence is good, but I often would give people perspective. Well, that's certainly a perspective, but I've got years and over a decade sobriety. I don't know if I'm going to be good, I don't know if I got this left to my own devices. Another psychological or pieces that ego, that unhealthy version. Right, good pride is a good thing, but having ego in terms of feeding this, it could be the level of omnipotence. Omnipotence refers to the quality or state of being of being all powerful or having unlimited power. Perceived self-control, it's a reduced perception of risk.
Speaker 2:That sounds amazing. For an alcoholic, it sounds like self-will run riot.
Speaker 1:It sounds like the opposite of using a support network for cravings. It sounds the opposite of identifying your character defects and your insecurities. It sounds like the opposite that yeah, I can white knuckle through this and hold on and I'll be okay and you're fine until you aren't. But you see how that's a way of setting yourself up not just for a craving, stronger cravings, but a relapse. There's an analogy that your addiction is in the parking lot doing pushups. And if you use that visualization, that analogy, that hey, no matter how strong you think you are, if you have this reduced perception of risk, this perceived self-control, that eventually it's going to be stronger than you.
Speaker 1:So it's not just about self-will. If it was just self-will, people have all the desire in the world, but then somehow people relapse. People have all the desire in the world and they want to do it for their children, but that's not enough to keep them sober. People have all the desire not to pick up a drink or drug, and then they see me and they go. I don't know how it happened. And then we break down the anatomy of a relapse and we identify patterns, that how they set themselves up for a craving in this thought and this behavior and this emotion is one way that people do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awareness can be so powerful. I always think about the power of mindfulness, or the power of meditation, or understanding the nature of your mind helps you to be part of the process before it's too late. So sometimes we will find ourselves in a place of very strong craving, but we do not get there all of a sudden. There's a process that happens Meditation, mindfulness. It really helps to pay attention because mindfulness analogy is a gatekeeper. So if there is a really big city, there's a gatekeeper and there's some rivalry cities, armies around it, so there are some spies coming in and the role of a gatekeeper is to keep an eye on people, who's coming in and who's going out. So mindfulness is like that too. Right when we're trying to minimize the craving, like was this going to help me with my sobriety or is it going to create more craving? And then discerning the difference. It's not like, oh yeah, I'm free for all, anything can come in. It's not like that, but being very mindful and systematic about what am I letting things into my life and what I'm not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love this story or this analogy of it's not about willpower, and I give the example of X-Lax pills. You know what they are. So X-Lax pills you can buy at your local grocery store or Rite Aid or CVS and basically it gives you a bowel movement, it gives you the diarrhea of the shits. So if you take an X-Lax, you get the runs you still get a muscle man, yeah, exactly, there you go yeah.
Speaker 2:You relax More of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's the wrong word and I say this person that says I'm good, I got this when I was a addiction counselor in treatment, and even though they may have had previously filled attempts of being good and they can have all the desire and the willpower in the world and their past experiences, this is no. I don't want to use this time. I'm not going to. If it was just that this thing wouldn't be a pandemic. Once again, listen to episode three and four if you want to understand the brain chemistry and how it works medically and medical model and the 12 step model. They go very parallel. Why? It's not just a self-will thing, but this person that is on self-will I say okay, you have all the desire in the world not to crap your pants, so you take all those capsules of X-Lax pills or liquid and I don't care how much desire or willpower you have not to shit your pants. If you take those X-Lax pills you're going to shit your pants. It's not about just desire or will your fingers going to pucker up and it's going to go ahead and lose. Sorry for the graphicness, my point being if it was just about desire and willpower. There's a chemical brain change in the people's brain and you've induced it enough, where there's an obsession of the mind and allergy of the body, and you might have the willpower for that first craving, that, second craving that, third craving. But eventually if you rely on just willpower alone and not treatment or support or spirituality or help, that's why one of the big reasons people relapse. So I'll give another psychological example denial.
Speaker 1:Denial is a beautiful coping skill. It is wonderful. As a therapist I have people all the time that don't have any substance abuse issues but they have a lot of denial. It's beautiful because denial refers to the psychological process by which individuals refuse to accept or acknowledge the reality of a situation or condition, so typically because it is emotionally distressing. So in other words, not only there's not an issue, denial saying oh, this doesn't exist, so there's nothing to even stress about. So denial is just beautiful, works very well for people, it's a protective factor. And if I don't have to acknowledge the reality of the situation, then what do I have to stress about? It's a beautiful coping skill, not a healthy one, because you're not dealing with the situation or the condition. But boy, people are good at it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, use the word conditioning. It's a very Buddhist term because there is a conditioning going on for everything that comes into existence, and the thing about denial is that it is a tool. Like you said. It's my ability to ignore things that I don't want, to look at as if they don't exist. So it's a mechanism that our mind uses to find that ease and comfort or that limited or personal reality creating, but it takes so much energy to keep constructing that right.
Speaker 1:It's my favorite acronym Don't even know I am lying. It's my favorite acronym. It's such a great example of this doesn't exist. I don't even know that. I'm not being transparent or honest. Because it doesn't exist, I'm preventing to even look at it. This is true for family members of addicts and alcoholics. This is true of someone in active addiction or someone that's struggling to make a change that might be necessary for health and growth and things like that. So it's a go-to for a lot of people. But hey, this is how you can set yourself up for a craving. If something doesn't exist, then it's not an issue. If it's not an issue, then it's not a problem. It's not a problem, then what do I have to do with it? Then, all of a sudden, you're getting cravings out of nowhere. When people say I don't know where this craving come from, I don't know how I relapsed, there's denial at first, until we break it down and then they see oh, they see it now. So we break through that denial and a whole bunch of other things.
Speaker 2:Going back to that example of the pills that you take, that you cannot go against, that you're going to go have a bowel movement anyway, despite your desire.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I said that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you said that because I feel like that's the crack in the denial. It's a good beginning to see that it's an unfair fight. It's not worth fighting. I feel like that's the beauty of recovery, especially in the 12th step when you work. The first step is admitting that this is a really big beast that I will never win. Let me just start from there. It's an unfair fight. I feel like that can really crack some denial.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's good. So let's do the next one. Let's crack through that denial Pink cloud. Where does your mind go with? How can a pink cloud set someone up for a craving? And maybe you can explain a little bit what your perspective of a pink cloud is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's the term that I've never heard of before recovery. So thinking about it now, I mean I guess it has some poetic meaning to it, like pink cloud, but it's almost like a fantasy land that things are just. You're just this new found self and nothing can go wrong. I'm just on this pink cloud, like things are great. I'm in this fictional character almost to the grandiose, thinking as well that, yeah, nothing can hurt me. I'm just this new found recover self. I found God.
Speaker 1:Things are great. Why would I not want to be sober? I'm never letting go of this. This is almost like a natural high, euphoric high. This is man. I love sobriety.
Speaker 1:So in some ways I tell people if you got a pink cloud, rock it, ride it, enjoy it. That's not the unhealthy part of potentially being on a pink cloud. If all of a sudden, you feel good in your sobriety to the level of some euphoria, great, what a gift You've been given, the gift of feel good. To me, that's not the issue, the issue with potentially being on a pink cloud. It's one thing to stay sober when things are going good, but you can pop her. All of a sudden that cloud goes away and life happens. That's when you need to work a recovery program and sometimes, when people are on that riding high, there's not a lot of hard stuff going on. But when all of a sudden the mood goes down or life happens, stressors happen and now all of a sudden they feel blindsided. And wait a minute, the things that got you to that pink cloud or the things that you're doing good, you can and should still do when you're not riding that pink cloud, that euphoric feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've seen that a lot. I mean it probably comes from a good intention place. Then, oh yeah, you know, maybe that person is definitely honest in that moment. But having a fellowship really helps, especially people who like break you out of that little bubble. But also makes me think about I guess this is more like a general theme about pink cloud and also just recovery in general. I wanna kind of relate that with meditation practice is that maybe I've already shared.
Speaker 2:In our Buddhist tradition there's like two main branch of meditation. One is like concentration based, the madhi, and then the other is insight based or vipassana. Vipassana and the example. I don't know if that's the case in this country, but back in Brahma the roads are messy but you'll be driving in the dark at night and you see something on the road and it's not clear whether it's a rope or a snake.
Speaker 2:So, like the thing about pink cloud and the thing about clarity and insight and concentration is that I can concentrate on something and pretend that that doesn't exist. It doesn't scare me, but if I'm like looking at it, I'm like confused is this a snake or a rope? So I think recovery process is like that too. That pink cloud can be like a concentration method. Let me just focus on all these things that I'm excited about. Not pretend that there is no beast of addiction that's got the worst in me, but the thing about the clarity, the thing about recovery for me too is about let me find out what it is and then, once I find out what it is that it is a rope or it is a snake, whatever it is once I see things clearly, I know what to do. I feel like that's the process of recovery and dealing with cravings as well.
Speaker 1:We're in the holiday season, got my relapse prevention group and every once in a while I got people feeling really good. It was a great time to be sober. And then you hear that they could be going back home for the holidays and where they would go with the family. Well, they're all using. I'm good, you feel good about it. But let's do a hypothetical. What if you don't feel good about it? Let's allow yourself to see is that a snake? Where's this road going and being able to go? Well, I don't think I am, because I feel good now. Well, that's well. Okay, let's look at the whole situation for what it is. Oh, your cousins, your aunts and uncles are all using your drug of choice and you call grandma's house a drug den. Maybe you shouldn't feel so great about it. Like not to pop your cloud there. But let's get into reality and let's do some hypotheticals here, so that way you're not like oh I don't know how this happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting like I'm seeing a little bit of peril between denial and being allowed to.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and this is relating to that. Now we think and feel the psychological that and there's a reason why this rational, logic, reason is not really proactive. Check episode three and four. But hey, we can, with treatment and support we can get ahead of this, so that way we don't have cravings. Yeah, good Resentments.
Speaker 2:That's a good one.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, resentments that ourselves up for cravings, how so is all.
Speaker 2:Well, it is the number one offender. Is what it says in the 12 step literature. I guess the wording they use is some kind of a dubious luxury something like that For normal men and women.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, but yeah, because resentment really creates that sense of unfairness. Right, it's not fair. It's not fair which creates the entitlement to let me just do it my way now. It's not fair. And I guess resentment is not limited to anger or negative thought, like in my experience. It's something that keeps my attention over and over again. It becomes so exhausting I cannot get out of my head.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's going over and over in our head is yeah, there's the thought, but there's also the emotion associated with and it can be anger, but it's usually some re-feeling, some type of discomfort or frustration or irritation, something that's not fair, if you will. That's one example. And for someone that abuses substances to the level of obsession, if I continue to re-feel which is what resentment means, re-feel sent here, feel a discomfort and anger and irritation, well, I don't want to continue to re-feel this, and either I can change them or I can change this feeling by relapse. So, what a great kind of red flag, awareness of going. Wait a minute, what am I actually feeling? Is it an anger? Is it a resentment? Is it a frustration? Is it something that's not fair? That then I always say I'm excellent at justifiable resentments, I shouldn't feel this way because that person did it and a lot of people go. You're right, that is not fair. Well, guess what, that's pretty dubious too, isn't it that? Even that one, even the justifiable resentments, because guess what, I'm really feeling a discomfort. And for days, weeks, months, years, decades, when I felt a discomfort, whether it's physically, mentally, emotionally, socially I knew how to get rid of that discomfort.
Speaker 1:So now that I'm sober, that resentment, if I don't get rid of it in a healthy way and I feel this discomfort, eventually an alcoholic or an addict is going to drink or drug. The only difference between an addict alcoholic and a non-addict alcoholic. Other people can cope with their resentments in a whole bunch of toxic ways. They can go to work, they can obsess about stuff, they can lust, they can get lost in infidelity, they can do anger and fighting and other obsessions. But for an addict and alcoholic eventually those things won't be good enough either and then they'll eventually pick up a drink or drug. That's the only difference. Other people can deal with resentments in unhealthy ways too, but for an addict and alcoholic they will eventually go to substances.
Speaker 2:Only difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's also. I guess having that concept was like resentment for people who are new to recovery is very helpful in terms of being able to name the feeling, because addiction is also described as like an abnormal reaction to things. Right, something would make me angry, and it's okay to be angry, but I don't stop there. As an addict, I make it bigger than it is or I suppress it, so there is no appropriate reaction. But having these vocabularies really help. I guess the tool is like naming the feeling. When we're able to name the feeling, it loses its power. Otherwise, I'm like I don't feel good, I don't feel good at all, and then eventually I'm like, oh, let me just change how I feel.
Speaker 1:Justification or denial or whatever it might be Absolutely so. These things can compound on each other. These ways that we set ourselves up for a cravings or unhealthy coping skills we're seeing can compound. Let's go back to part one we talked about halt hungry, angry, lonely, tired. So we often associate resentments with irritation or level of anger. So we feel a discomfort, anger. Eventually we don't want to feel angry anymore and we either project it out on the other person and selfishness, or we take the poison through, expect the other one to get sick. So we got hungry, angry, lonely, tired. Well, if we're lonely, we isolate. If we isolate, well, we can do that in a very unhealthy way. Addiction loves isolation, because then it's just me and you baby. And if it's this, it's a I love hate.
Speaker 1:Relationship with drugs and alcohol was when it got me. Alone is exactly what I wanted. It was the thing that I hated the most too. It was always there for me, even though I know it would abuse me back. So that lonely, that isolation affected my emotions, my thoughts, and it's dangerous because then I get the ego, I get the denial, I get all these other things when I'm lonely, cause I'm left to my own devices and tired. Oh, that's a huge one. When I'm tired, I'm not thinking straight and I think we'll eventually get a sleep expert just to talk about all things. Collective solution to health and wellness when it comes to sleep and how that is rejuvenating, but what sleep actually does for us in a healthy way. But when we're tired, it affects everything else, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:It does. Yeah, Going back to that loneliness thing, I mean I laugh at it now, but it's kind of really messed up when I was living in my addiction. So a good friend of mine who has long-term sobriety said something along those lines about loneliness. Is that we alcoholics or addicts try to solve our loneliness problem by isolating and it's just like right on point. You know, I feel lonely, let me just isolate.
Speaker 1:That just sounds logical, Right yeah, and people with depression can relate to this. The one thing where this level of depression is I don't want to spend the little energy I have around other people, but I often say one of the best treatments for depression is action. The one thing we don't want to do is use energy, get around people and change that kind of unhealthy way to cope with depression. So people with depression can relate to just that loneliness when well, let me hold up, which is why support, 12 step meetings, sober houses, treatment support groups, real-est prevention groups are all a huge piece for to fight that unhealthy isolation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then it goes back to that same things as they are, or labeling, because, as an alcoholic and an addict, I'm either a Superman or I'm the worst person ever. So, like I feel tired, I'm not supposed to feel tired Lonely. No, I'm not lonely, Angry, I'm never angry. I am this like super human, or seeing things as they are really helped that okay. Yeah, I'm tired, so I need to take a nap. Or I'm hungry I haven't eaten anything and then it makes us to like to take action right away.
Speaker 1:It's big, big good. So we've done the psychological piece, how we think and feel. Let's jump to social. Social is for, I say, everyday life. This is the people, places and things. We can set ourselves up for cravings in this way too. Touched upon this and near beers, All of a sudden people stop drinking and then, well, this is what I knew I'm not going to drink alcohol, but I'll do. The non-alcoholic beers Might be a no brainer for some, but maybe not for others. Why is that dangerous for an alcoholic to drink non-alcoholic beers?
Speaker 2:I mean we're in that place of social, but it's still psychological right and physical and physical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, You're getting the sense, you're getting the taste. Psychologically, you're doing everything you did when you used.
Speaker 2:And you're still probably associating with people who used to drink with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like we said, no other drug do you do not to get the drug effect. So why would we think that's okay to try to do that with alcohol? It's crazy. Who makes those non-alcoholic drinks? The beer companies they know exactly. Oh, this is for the designated driver.
Speaker 1:Yeah sure it is, and there's been a huge uptick over the past couple of years in these. You know dozeckis and these not same. Probably all these non-alcoholic beers as as. Yeah, it's a great marketing tool, but for an alcoholic hernatic, often the pattern is okay, I'm getting the taste, or at least close enough. They've gotten a lot better over the past 15 years when it comes to taste. A lot better. Oh, I'm getting the taste. Oh, I'm doing the same routine, the conditioning, like you said earlier, that I did before.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I got a stressful day where I just got done doing work in the yard, whatever it is. All of a sudden I drank two socially. Well, then there's three, then there's five, then people are drinking six, a six pack of non-alcoholic beers. But that's not getting what, the euphoric feeling. So eventually it doesn't work. And then what do people do? So it's just like. It's like the alcoholic mouthwash. Okay, the intention wasn't to drink it socially, but how much alcohol does it take? I don't know. But you're doing everything but getting the consumption and there is a small percentage in most of them. They're getting better scientifically to not have any percentage, but it's less than a percent for most of them, but I don't know how much alcohol it takes for it to release the beast, but you're doing every other sense anyway.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean from the point of view of recovery journey too, right, If I'm still doing that, like my growth is still being hindered, it's my still old way of thinking, because recovery is all about change.
Speaker 1:Before I go on a run, I'm just gonna snort a tic-tac line. I'm gonna do pixie sticks like I did in middle school. Nope, I'm just gonna do an ify of brown water. Not for hydration liquid IV. No, I'm just. I just wanna I miss it. No, that sounds absurd, but socially non-alcoholic beers are acceptable. It's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, people places and things.
Speaker 1:If you hang out with shit, you're gonna smell like shit. So that's a harsh way of saying if you hang around people that are using constantly, you very well might be using soon. If you smell it, you might do it. If you keep hanging out in a barber shop, you eventually might get your hair cut. If you keep hanging around the people that the common denominator is using, what makes you think that you would have the willpower not to use, eventually, the proximity principle that I talk about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you definitely are who you surround yourself with, but also that's why recovery process is so powerful and internal right. I gotta be clear about what I want. But if I'm just hanging around without knowing what I want in a wrong crowd, I'm just gonna go along with the flow with that crowd.
Speaker 1:Man, not me. I won't do that. Some of you guys know that I got sober 20 years old and I had a trouble relating to my family, and so much so that I tried to like look at ear lobes and stuff like that and go, okay, am I adopted? That would make more sense to me. I felt closer to my quote unquote air quote friends than I did. My family had the felony charge, went to treatment, took the suggestions. I hung around eight to 15 people on a regular basis they know I got the felony charge, went to treatment with the support of my family and support and therapists and sponsor. They said, well, maybe now's not the time to hang around those people and we came to the conclusion talk to them all before I went into treatment. We love you, man, we're here for you, Totally get it. We love you, we support you. All my old usin' friends. And then it was time for me to talk to them after treatment, and part of it was hey, I had a bunch of realizations in treatment.
Speaker 1:The common denominator was drugs and alcohol. I don't wanna put myself in that situation because I don't wanna be tempted Whether you tempt me or not. I don't wanna tempt myself Whether you do so, peer pressure or not, I just can't hang out with you so called 10, 15 of these people, all of them that I talked to beforehand. We love you, man, we're here for you. Hey, do you mind coming over to my house to talk with me and my parents about what I'm doing? Out of those 10 or 15 people Do you have any showed up? Three my girlfriend, my girlfriend's sister and my best friend. I was rocked.
Speaker 1:That hurt me more and was harder than not picking up a drink or a drug, because my social life at 18, 19, 20 was my life and my life was using with them and I thought it was like my family, but the common, it was a friendship of convenience. It was, hey, you're great and all, but if this common denominator wasn't there, then really, what is this love? Is this family? So that was hard for me but socially for me not to use.
Speaker 1:I had to set up conditions and I totally understand it was hard for me to do and I was shocked that everyone but three understood that I couldn't hang out with them because I didn't want to kill myself and I don't want to do more time for a felony charge that I thought I was already gonna do so. I wasn't willing to risk my button in, possibly jail and killing myself. That was hard, but this happens for a lot of people. I don't care if you're 60, 70, 80, if you're in your mid 30s or 40s or you're a teenager or a younger. This social aspect is really challenging, whether it's job requirements, friends, family. This is tough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's always some kind of change going on, transitioning into something else, but also trusting something too. It's been always true in my life about that cliche of one door closes like many other doors open. Sometimes it's not right away but, I gotta be patient.
Speaker 1:Not when we want it to, when it's supposed to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's a good point that you're making about being real about what's gonna come up, because change is gonna happen, whether I like it or not, and that can be a trigger Got you.
Speaker 1:This is so true right now. During holiday season, I really don't want to go to grandma's house because cousin and uncle are using and I'm not gonna be comfortable. And what's the reason? People still go, whether there's an obligation, a sense of guilt or shame. And then people are willing to risk their sobriety because of those things and those old family dynamics, as opposed to whether family members understand it or not, and this is true for weddings. This is true for a lot of things. How do you put your recovery first and how do you minimize risk factors and go? I don't want to set myself up for being uncomfortable or set myself up for cravings or relapse. So, whether loved ones or family members or friends understand or not, well part of this social change is okay.
Speaker 1:Who does understand?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's empowering to realize or act as if of like having choices right, I've been in addiction also meant for me that no choice. I was like this is the only choice that I have. If I don't choose it, I mean nothing but recovery process. Really empower us to like okay, that's not the only choice, I can make choices.
Speaker 1:And part of this is accountability and responsibility, removing risk for cravings. You trained your loved ones, your family members, your friends to either be okay or support your active use and now to expect that your family members, friends, loved ones are now going to be healthy enough to go, you know I'm not using, we're not gonna do it. That's a huge transition shift. So, whether the family members and friends and are healthy or not, wait a minute. We created part of this dynamic and now we're going. We need to be the change. We can control this with healthier support, Because to expect our family members and friends to understand this, well, no, we can help create this dynamic. Well, that's good. Now let's reduce these cravings. If you got them, huh, yeah, how do we do that?
Speaker 2:Good.
Speaker 1:This is important, obviously. So whether you have it or you set, you're partially responsible for the craving, which I really think it's important to look at when it comes to accountability and making these changes. Let's reduce the cravings. I call it the three Rs. So the first R, when you have a craving, is to recognize it. One way to do this is you get to self-diagnose. Now you don't need a doctor, a therapist, a psychiatrist, a physician when you've got a craving, one or two things happen An active use and early recovery can be.
Speaker 1:Man, I got a craving, let me go use. And it becomes impulsive. When you have a craving and if the first, second or third thing you go is shit, I'm an alcoholic, I'm an addict, that different thought process can be enough from feeding the obsession, the impulsivity to you to self-diagnosed. I'm an addict, I'm powerless over that thought, that first thought, that first emotion. So if you self-diagnose and recognize it, you can change that pattern, as opposed to infuel the pulsivity and the obsession. So you recognize it, you self-diagnose, then, when you recognize it, that second, third, fourth, fifth thought and behavior can be, reduce it. What are some ways that we reduce cravings? Mindfulness, meditation. You got any feedback on how that can help?
Speaker 2:Yeah, becoming more present in the moment. It's always good to use the senses, like naming the things that I see, naming the things that I smell, naming the sounds that I hear, naming the things that I can touch. When I become physically present with the senses, that can reduce again the impulsivity, and the impulsiveness goes into this. Hooking that, oh yeah, this is all I can think about. But when we start practicing some grounding exercises, that gets reduced.
Speaker 1:It's self-awareness of the diagnosis now, self-awareness on the examples that's all Jess gave Bility to observe cravings can be a form of doing it If this is early on and not in full-blown obsession mode. I think mindfulness and meditation are a wonderful skill set. Here's a big thing when people were in treatment and they just had a craving, run up and down the steps, do 30 push-ups, do 50 set-ups, because when you do exercise we release those feel-good things. So it's a spike, right, you release some endorphins. It's valuable. And getting in the habit of engaging in regular physical activity whether it's jogging, walking, yoga, lifting weights exercise not only improves physical health but also enhances mood, reduces stress. It provides a natural outlet for tension in cravings. So you've got your. I need to get this adrenaline up and just need to release for this intense craving. Where I worked we had a pull. I said do 30 push-ups, run up and down the steps and then jump in the pull. All right, it released all kinds of stuff and it can help, but so can long-term, regular exercise.
Speaker 1:We talked about healthy nutrition. You are what you eat and how you eat, so there's the good nutrition that can create, that, can prevent that. Just that roller coaster spikes and can also affect mood. But this is an old school thing you stick a mouthful of peanut butter and we've got a mouthful of peanut butter you're really going to want to use. Hey, the spike of sugar is better than the spike of getting high. So even that, even though it's not quote unquote healthy, I'd rather people get a sugar spike.
Speaker 1:These are, whether it's short-term or long-term things, these are things can be beneficial. Right? Adequate sleep We'll eventually do a whole episode on just health and sleep. But, my goodness, it reduces stress, it just regulates. It's healing for your brain, it helps with resilience, it makes more. It just helps in every single way. Right? Therapy counseling I can tell you how many people that when you have a craving, they come into my office and they're like their legs shake in and they're back and forth, their head bobbing, they're looking down, their hands are on the shoulders and I talked to them for 15 minutes it could be directly about the cravings or about anything and then about usually 10 to 12 to 18 minutes in, I go hey, have you noticed anything? Their bodies relax, they're not obsessing. They got outside of themselves and talked to another human being. So, whether it's a therapist, whether it's a sponsor, whether it's a healthy support, whether it's someone that you know is is, is that you live with you. Name it. That's a huge help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's powerful, getting out of your own thoughts.
Speaker 1:So here's just. We just named a few of ways to reduce it. And the last one is and maybe we'll do even more episodes on some different versions of this Recognize, reduce and lastly, and surely not least, the the last star is relocate. If everything you're doing is still there, get the heck out of the way where you have the craving. That could be the triggering spot where you have the craving. I'll give you an example. So I worked with I had my boss and we worked at a treatment facility and he had six, seven more years than I did and I knocked on his door and he opened his door and he just had that look in his eye and I said, are?
Speaker 2:you okay, dude.
Speaker 1:And he said no, I'm not. I said oh, and like you know me being an addict, and I was like oh, I think, oh, he's struggling. And his trigger was an old friend using friend called him. He had multiple years of sobriety and the conditions and and they say there's a lot of things that say with like PTSD, if two of the senses are triggered and really it can really really say a trauma response. I only think it takes one sense for cravings. That's probably true for PTSD too, but just talking on the phone it just triggered cravings for him. So this is what he did he tried to reduce it. He was reading the basic texts. He was very fortunate His best friend was the supervisor and the adolescent wing.
Speaker 1:He talked to his friend who's also in recovery. Past 15 minutes go by. He called his sponsor. He's still 30 minutes in, he still has his craving. And then he said, even though he was in a very safe place, a drug and alcohol inpatient treatment facility, he said I got to go and what I know is not he had to go use. I still have this craving here. I need to relocate. All right, brother man, give a prayer for you. He was gone 20, 30 minutes. He came back. He was better, but isn't that unbelievable?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's very practical.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it's a change of scene. Even if it's short, that's what happens when I'm working from home and I go out for a walk. It can be a short walk. By the time I get back, I'm like a completely new person. There's something about energy being trapped in space.
Speaker 1:Okay. One more example about relocate. A guy in a relapse prevention group that he was on a bus had to go to the city for something and be the parole, probation or something like that and he realized he was just a few streets away of where he used to use instant craving. So he was four streets away. All of a sudden his heart started to beat faster and harder. Three streets away he started to salivate. Two streets away he started to sweat. Next thing, you know he's at the street, he white knuckles, he holds on the bus goes. One street away he's able to exhale. Two streets away, he said a prayer. Three seats away he goes. I'm so good. But you see what happened. He relocated from his bus route and all of a sudden the craving started to diminish. So he processed that in the relapse prevention group. But those are two examples. I don't care where you're at. If all these other things aren't working, then relocate.
Speaker 2:Good stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, what do you think? These are all good stuff. Thank you, luke, absolutely. Thank you guys for your lesson and hopefully this was helpful and we've had gosh intensive outpatients play our episodes to their clients because it's been beneficial. So, whether it's for you or other people, please like, comment and, most importantly, share, because collectively we can be a collective solution to all things health and wellness. So it is that holiday time and it's crunch time for a lot of people, but there's a lot of things that we don't have control or power of. But hopefully this is an example Not just be mindful, but be proactive and minimize your risk factors, and there is some healthy controls that can help you through this time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we've been doing this for our podcast. A few more weeks and we've completed the whole year without missing any Mondays. Is?
Speaker 1:that right.
Speaker 2:That was some work for us, but we did it.
Speaker 1:Do you think we can make it? I think we're getting close. I think we're getting close.
Speaker 2:We're doing it.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Luke. Yeah, this is great, Absolutely so. Closing the chapter on today's exploration into the intricacies of cravings, I find myself reflecting on really the importance of understanding how we set ourselves up for the challenges that recovery presents. As we delved in the bio-psycho-social landscape of addiction, it did become clear that our thoughts, emotions and behaviors intricately weave together, letting the groundwork for cravings that can either propel us towards a potential relapse or fortify our resilience. The journey through the bio-psycho-social factors that contribute to cravings is not a mere academic exercise. It's a guidepost illuminating the paths we tread and the choices we make. Whether it's neurochemical dance within our brains or the echoes of past experiences shaping our responses, Every element plays a role in the intricate tapestry of recovery. You got more control in this perspective. Use it to your advantage with support. Thank you all for being here. My name's Luke. This is Zal. Thank you. See you next time. Bye.