A Therapist, A Buddhist, and You
A Therapist, A Buddhist, and You
Mindful Ears, Open Heart: The Art of Compassionate Listening
Ready to master the art of compassionate listening and unlock the key to deeper, more meaningful relationships? We highlight its roots in Buddhist tradition and explain the subtle yet powerful differences between hearing and truly listening. Our insights are interwoven with relatable personal experiences, enriching this enlightening exploration with practical examples. We realized how self-focused we can be in personal conversation!
Silence is a powerful communicator, and as we share our journey from introversion to authentic communication, you'll learn how to harness the power of mindful silence. The conversation delves into the virtues of vulnerability, empathy, and genuine interactions. These nuggets of wisdom are bound to inspire you, nudging you to drop your guard and open your heart in your interactions with others.
In the final act of this auditory journey, we delve into the practical application of compassionate listening in everyday life. Here, you'll learn about setting boundaries, practicing patience, and the immense power of offering someone your undivided attention. With a unique Buddhist perspective, we explore our commonality and how this shared experience can bridge deep connections. Listen in, soak up the wisdom, and remember, the act of sharing this knowledge is a step towards spreading compassion in our world.
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Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
Zaw Maw — Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
Luke DeBoy — Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
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Welcome to another episode of A Therapist of Buddhist in you, a podcast that delves into the intersection of mental health, spirituality and your journey to well-being. I'm Luke DeBoy, joined by your resident Buddhist extraordinaire, zalmol. Hey Luke, hello everyone, this is Zal. Thanks everyone for joining us, and today we are unwrapping the topic that is at the heart of meaningful connections in transformative conversations the art of compassionate listening. In a world filled with noise, distractions and quick judgments, the skill of truly listening has become a rare and really a precious gift. So here's the deal In this episode we're not just exploring the mechanics of listening, we're diving deep into the soul of it. Compassionate listening is more than just a communication skill. It's a profound way of connecting with others and, equally importantly, with yourself. So if you've ever felt the desire to strengthen your relationships, to be more present in your interactions or to navigate those tough conversations with grace, this episode is your guide. Whether you're a seasoned professional, someone on a spiritual journey or just someone eager to enrich your connections, there's something viable here for you. So like, subscribe, leave a comment and share this podcast with others, because collectively we can find a solution to all things health and wellness. And it might be a little bit harder to listen for them to listen to me today because I'm a little bit raspy. Zal, yeah, thanks for doing it.
Speaker 1:Anyway, we want to get these episodes out and hopefully I will still have a voice for people to listen to while I drink my tea. We've done episodes in the morning, before the sun is up, and this just so happens to be an episode at the end of the day, at night, with a cough and a cold, and I'll be visiting the doctors tomorrow, but hopefully my voice can be heard and listened to as we talk about this topic. Compassionate listening. I hope you feel better soon, luke. Thank you, I got the tea, so that's a good thing. So what is compassionate listening? Zal, yeah, interesting topic.
Speaker 2:I don't know if there's a particular term in Buddhist tradition for the translation of compassionate listening, but that topic came up and I thought it would be helpful to talk about it because the connections is really important, meaningful relationships, and it comes up a lot in my daily life too. But to unpack that a little bit, I do borrow that idea of compassionate from Buddhist tradition. When we think about the four sublimes, or one of them is compassion, it comes from the word karuna, which comes after the loving kindness, so to have compassion, I guess the translation sometimes is karuna is like the quivering of the heart. So it's a way of relatability. Yeah, we can begin from there about connecting.
Speaker 1:First time I heard you bring up the Four Noble Truths, but this is the first time in the podcast you've mentioned the Four Sublimes. Yes, what are the Four Sublimes? It's a little tangent, but if I'm curious, I'm sure some of the listeners are too. What are the Four Sublimes?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a little too technical. It also has to do with the planes of existence, but it is describing the Four Sublimes as they're like celestial beings, which has reached to meditative absorption, and they're very, very calm. So these are the Four States of these celestial beings where they abide, so like Four Sublime Abodes is a translation, but it's a series of things, which is mita, which the episode that we've done before, loving kindness, is one of the Four Sublimes, because that's where peace is. And then the second is the compassion, karuna, and then the third is mudita, which is the appreciative joy, where you feel happy for other people's success. Remember the last one, which is the most difficult one, is the equanimity, upyaka, the evenness of the mind. So those are referred to as the Four Sublimes, and I think there are also other translations, but that's the translation that I remember. So in Burmese is bhyamasu pramma, like as in the pramas. So that's usually translated as the Pure Abodes, or Four Sublimes.
Speaker 1:We have so much to learn from you, zal. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm learning Compassion and listening, as myself and the listeners. Hopefully we did that while you talk about the sublimes, listening and compassionate listening is more than just hearing words, isn't it Requires being present in a type of engagement with the person that's speaking?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a sense of selflessness too, because it's difficult. Maybe we can start from here about the difference between hearing and listening, because for me… I'm done with that Go ahead.
Speaker 2:So the work that I do as an interpreter in the healthcare setting I have a real time feedback of the difference between listening and hearing. So if I'm not listening I cannot do my job. Otherwise I'm just hearing words and I don't even know what I just heard. So it's all about that paying attention. So what I mean by selflessness is that, I guess the opposite of selflessness. We can start from there. When I'm being very selfish, all my thoughts are all about me and that's like a blockage for really hearing what the other person is saying. So, in a way, compassionate listening is putting those self-centered, my selfish thoughts aside, so that I can really be present and hear what other people are saying.
Speaker 1:In addition to doing life coaching and recovery coaching here at the Recovery Collective, you do interpretation and, to your point, if you were just hearing, you're not working. That's passive. To hear someone doesn't take a lot of engagement and effort, it's pretty passive. But listening involves I believe you said involving the reception of sound, listening to the enunciation and engagement with the words and, I think, the emotions of what someone is saying. So sometimes compassionate listening. And right now I think we're highlighting some characteristics of compassionate listening. There's more than just the words that we're hearing. There's more action to it.
Speaker 2:It's an engagement, it's active. But we can also connect with the second foundations of mindfulness. There's just a lot of numbers. Four foundations of mindfulness. Four no literature. Eight, full pad. There are just so many numbers. Second foundations of mindfulness is the mindfulness of the waitana, which is the feeling tones. That's also another way of listening, because we're always having that reaction to the elaboration of the earliest swathing. Okay, all right, let's move onto time. Here We've got darkness sense input. Whether we know it or not, it's either pleasant, unpleasant or neutral. That's also another way of practicing compassionate listening that when I'm listening, how is my being responding to what I'm hearing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to give another example of hearing and listening, as parents often get frustrated with their kids and then the children say I'm listening, I hear you, and then the parents are still frustrated for some reason because, even though they say the words, they feel that maybe that they're not really being listened to. So my example hearing might involve registering what someone and someone's upset. I hear you, gosh fine, but true listening delves into understanding why they feel that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just a great opportunity to practice mindfulness. I mean, first of all, when I'm interacting with another human being. It's like life bundle in it and it's an opportunity to enter. It's different from listening to music or listening to a recording, but when I'm interacting in real time with another human being, it's like a great opportunity to look into the soul of that person, because you're interacting with life.
Speaker 1:What are more of those qualities then? We're ciphering the difference between hearing and listening. You're bringing up compassionate listening as an example of mindfulness. I mentioned the differences, understanding the emotions behind someone saying so. What are some other qualities? Mindful is being present. Listening is kind of grounded in being fully present in that moment, isn't it so if we're present in that moment when someone is talking, that gives us the ability to do what. What are the other qualities when we're completely present with the person?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what we're talking about is strangely related to our first episode ever when we're unpacking the idea of collectiveness, the synergy, the sum of its parts, or the whole is greater than the sum of its part, kind of thing. That's what I have experienced. More so when I'm talking to people that I'm helping, when I really listen, it's like you become in tune with this greater force that comes out of two coming together. What I mean by that is that it's almost to the point of listening, to the point of losing yourself in it. What I mean by that is that I even had a conversation about this that when I want to be useful, my idea is that how do I prepare to be useful in this conversation?
Speaker 2:I have plans and ideas, like formulas, like what should I say, but a friend of mine told me that the best way to help someone else is to truly listen. So what he meant by that is that I don't need to think ahead of what I'm going to say. But if I truly listen to what the other person is saying, it comes to me naturally when it's time for me to talk, because I'm fully present with it, and it also creates room for silence too. Silence is okay, if somebody says something, I'm not required to respond right away, so I can keep listening. So that to me is almost like listening to the inner realm of what am I actually hearing, and also, how am I actually responding internally and then uncovering that.
Speaker 1:When I am fully present with someone, I'm not lost in what I'm going to say or what I'm thinking, whether it's in defense of myself or any of that, there's no judgment. I am present with that individual, with their words, with their emotions. I am present completely and with them, and that gives me ability to have curiosity. I can be more curious of what you're saying, why you're saying it. I can be completely present with your words and your emotions, and that's compassion. That's a form of empathy. It involves not only understanding the words being spoken but also connecting with the emotions and experiencing, underlying the words that you're saying and speaking. Being fully present with an individual. How loving is that. I can be completely present for all of you and give you all of myself in this conversation, to be completely present, emotionally, verbally connected with you. What curiosity. I don't have to take it personal. I can just be present with what you're saying, not what I'm thinking. Very mindful, yeah. How unselfish is that. It makes me think, god, I'm a selfish person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's joy in that really listening.
Speaker 1:God, how often do I think about me when other people talk? Yeah, it's scary right it's scary just to listen, because what am I gonna say when that person's done talking?
Speaker 1:What am I gonna say? Or why am I taking what you say personally, or why do I have to defend myself, or why do I feel the need to interject and either disagree or Show you my perspective, very selfless to be completely with what someone else is saying and Be mindful of that, as opposed to mindful of what I'm always thinking or feeling when someone else is sharing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we can re-emphasize about the, the component of compassion you know, because that's what it all comes down to, because I want to get into some of like practical tips of how to practice compassion and listening. Yeah, because we're human, yeah, we're human. It's all about the relatability we have that when we're talking about that, the room now, the compassion Buddhist term. That's translated as the quivering of the heart. It's like a literal example. When I see somebody in front of my eyes like getting beaten, I get hurt, right, because if there is so much relatability, or if I see blood or if I see an accident, like there is a Visceral reaction to that. That's kind of like an extreme example. But when I'm practicing compassion and listening, like it's honing that energy that we can think of an example that you Go to a foreign country and everybody looks different and they're talking a foreign language and you're just hearing and there's like that separation, right.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, they look different and their culture is different. I'm not hearing anything, it's just a bunch of sounds, you know. But then I Think there are also some people who listen to foreign music, although they don't Understand the language, but then there are some people who really try to listen to the feeling, like what is it actually expressing? It really requires more effort, you know, especially when there is a difficulty listening, it becomes like an opportunity to like, look for the things that I can identify with as opposed to I cannot identify with. So I finding that relatability. It really is that the key to compassionate listening, the connection you know, the similarities, how is Silence a part of compassionate listening?
Speaker 1:you touched briefly upon it. How is mindful silence a part of it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's powerful, especially because I've got a lot of groups and all my groups are a silent meditation. Sometimes I'm just overwhelmed by that feeling that everybody in this group they are intentionally being silent and they're okay with that in this room. You know, I felt those feelings whenever I lead groups. But I guess in terms of compassionate listening, it becomes more of a Either your thoughts get too noisy and you're able to pay attention and they quiet down, or you find yourself in a place of Like there are so many things that are spoken without words. You know, especially if you've been to a silent meditation retreat, you know, like there is more being spoken than the words you know.
Speaker 2:So To connect that with the relatability like if we're just sitting, you and I just sitting, without any words, I pay more attention to the body language or the temperature, or like movement, because there's no sound you know. So that becomes also like a portal to go deeper into what is being revealed without the words.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we both do, group and me as a therapist. That intentional pause allows the speaker and the listener To explore their thoughts, explore their emotions, without feeling pressured and sometimes do people feel pressured and like because of that pause? Yes, but to really take in during that moment of silence and pause Can be very beneficial when it comes to listening and being mindful of what my thoughts are when listening, as opposed to just reacting to what someone says, allowing that second thought.
Speaker 1:Allowing that second emotion to come in, whether it's allowing you to go back to compassionate listening and Be less selfless of my thoughts and be present again with the other, with a person sharing and speaking or going. How can I connect with this person based on what they said and what am I feeling? Based on what I saw or heard from that individual? So, just man, that mindful silence Can be powerful with listening. Stop me if this is too abstract and philosophical.
Speaker 2:But as you're talking, as I'm listening, something comes up about the difference between being and thinking. Okay, because I read it. I think it was in a 12-step literature that I was doing. It was describing about the difference between giving advice and giving yourself, because I can be in a conversation and I can give advice through thinking. Oh yeah, this is what he's saying, so I'm gonna give this advice, but then that's kind of distant, you know. But then when I'm like giving myself, like when I'm being, if I'm just being in the present, I'm giving myself the whole being to that conversation, and it's not really about advice anymore, you know, it's about being the channel of what I'm supposed to say in that moment.
Speaker 1:Which is one of the, I think, reasons why 12-step experience, strength and hope is. Experience, strength and hope work so well. When you be, you are giving you. You're giving your experiences. You might not be telling someone what to do, but you're telling them Based on my being, based on my experience. This is how I am and you can listen to it and relate and connect and compassionately Listen to what that person is saying, based on their experiences.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I'm piggybacking off what you're saying or not, but that's kind of what, what, what I'm hearing. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Okay, and so let's give a couple more Qualities before we move on to the next piece. We talked to him about the open-mindedness we're certainly talking around. We're mentioning empathy, that it's at the core compassionate listening, not only understanding, but connecting with the emotions. We're talking about empathy. We're talking about being patient in the silence and the curiosity which is all to me, giving that person complete respect Based on what they're saying. I am respecting when they're at and I'm listening to all aspects of the verbal and the non-verbal. Talked about mindful silence.
Speaker 2:We hit a lot so far. This is good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, authenticity. How does that hit you? When it comes to compassionate listening, what do you connect with when I say compassionate listening? There's a lot of authenticity and compassionate listening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that hits me hard, but in the opposite direction, because I've come a long way, if I think about it, because I used to be a very shy, introvert person, which is the opposite of authenticity, right. Because, especially even in my own native language, I was just afraid of people. I can't really talk. So in a way, I was not being authentic, because it's all about saying something that's right, you know, so that I won't get the attention, so that people would just move on. But the compassionate listening or the practicing authenticity really means being vulnerable and showing your true self and connecting. So it was even more difficult when I was learning how to speak English, because I was all in my head, because, first of all, it takes me a while to comprehend what I'm hearing in English and I also have to construct words in my head. There's also a delay, right.
Speaker 2:Because I have to formulate thoughts, to be able to say it so like, yeah, the opposite is thinking too much, you know. But it's like jumping into the cold water, right, if you just keep tapping it, you're not gonna go in because it's cold, but you just gotta jump in. I feel like that's how it is, like with the authenticity, like you just gotta do it. And then I mean, that's how it was for me, I just gotta do it. And when I did it, I was like, oh, it wasn't that bad, you know, because there is more benefits than disadvantage, because that's how recovery has been for me. I took that risk of sharing my true self to another individual and that was like a really free experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I hope that answers that question of being genuine and authentic.
Speaker 1:Internally, as I listen to you say that I was, the emotions that I felt was wow, that makes so much sense. But I never thought or felt that concern with you and we certainly joke that the irony we've talked about this before that you speaking on a podcast and not your native language but to the level of how you just shared it, feeling that challenge, you know, was something that I was being present with, as you shared, yeah, I mean, I think, being authentic and being sincere and that is contagious and that is something that I think is easy. When someone is sincere and authentic, you can't fake that. So when you truly see and feel and hear that a lot of times the authenticity and the sincerity is shown.
Speaker 1:I'll say from my experience, let's say, with my therapist hat, and then I work with a lot of people in early recovery and I ask them what are they looking for when it comes to a sponsor? And so much that I realize and I'm guiding them and helping them on is, yeah, they can talk the talk, but do they walk the walk? Yeah, they might see a lot of good things, but how are you connecting to them? What are you feeling when they share their experiences when they're in the meeting before and after, and being able to tell that sincerity is often not what is said but what is felt, you know, and that's that authentic and it's often through some of the characteristics that we hear in compassionate listening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know we're still on the categories of qualities, but I think this is also a point where we can segue into the importance of practice and the effort. Same thing with meditation too, because I don't want this to be kind of off-putting, but for me to come to listen compassionately, it requires some work of my own, like self-care, or my own spiritual well-being. Only then I'm able to do that. You know what I mean by that is that You're a judgment asshole if you don't do that.
Speaker 1:It's more like Sorry, that was me.
Speaker 2:What was I thinking? I lost my thoughts. Now Maybe I need to listen more.
Speaker 1:Maybe I need to listen more and I'll cut you off.
Speaker 2:So, like you know, like if I am in a place where I feel comfortable in my own skin, because you know the way we're talking about being authentic, it's also related to trust, right? Because my inability to listen comes from a place of not trusting either myself or the person that I'm talking to. I'm guarding myself up, you know, because I don't want to get hurt. But then when I practice trust which mostly comes from knowing who I am Only then like there's that confidence and the trust and then I'm able to open up more. Otherwise I'm like kind of in a mode where I'm like a standby mode to protect myself. What is he going to say? That it's going to hurt me, you know. So let me not try to listen, like kind of guard it. So it makes me think of that too, about trust.
Speaker 1:Because you're trusting. Do you feel that when you have that trust, you're trusting what you're actually hearing and feeling, but also trusting what you're actually feeling as well? Because I'm trying to think what prevents me from trusting my ability to actually listen to person and not need to react? It's not too much what they're doing. In my experience, it's what am I not trusting or what I'm not comfortable with myself? Because what a person says has nothing to do with me. But why do I get uncomfortable with that sometimes? Why am I not whether it's comfortable or sure enough of myself just to be in that moment?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, go expect it at practice. We're just given opportunities every day, especially in this DNA, everybody's always connecting. I do prefer face-to-face in person connection, but if you think about 24 hours in a day, I like communications, phone calls, internet people are always connecting. We have great opportunities to practice that. The world becomes a really lovely place when you are immersed in that connecting with people and there's so much joy in it.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about more challenges of compassionate listening. One being is there inward I think I was just hitting on this this internal distraction Our minds may wonder due to personal thoughts, judgments or preconceived notions of being able I hear you continue to touch upon to be able to practice mindfulness and stay present and gently redirect my focus back to the speaker when I'm distracted by my thoughts, my emotions or judgment of what the person's saying. I think that's a good challenge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the challenge and also the importance not to clarify is that when we say compassionate listening is not at an individual's expense, it's not like I'm sacrificing, but there's also the compassionate listening when it comes to. Sometimes. I cannot practice compassionate listening if I haven't taken care of myself. So, it's more important to practice compassionate listening to myself first. What is it that I need in this moment? Because otherwise it becomes all about other people to the point of like you don't care about yourself. So finding that balance as well is important.
Speaker 1:I think we hit this really well and appropriately and go okay, internally. Look at yourself Now, what about when the other person is emotionally intense? What do you say about that?
Speaker 2:Intense, as in like negative somebody angry. That's a good example, yeah.
Speaker 1:How do you have compassionate listening for that? What this is? A collective solution to health and wellness. So we're saying be compassionate, remove your emotions from it, get in the silence of connecting with this person in there, not just what they say, but they're nonverbal. So what would you tell our listeners when there's someone that is just so emotionally intense for the example that you gave, negative or mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess that interestingly connects with those four sublimes, the last one, the equanimity. So like I can do my best to be the best version of myself or to be in harmony, but when it comes to unwinding or kind of comforting that anger, that person is in charge, like it's on him. I cannot make somebody be rid of anger, so I think that's also a good quality to have to know that boundary, that okay, was it in my control and was not in my control, because the best solution is to detach myself from it if somebody is too angry, unless it is life-threatening.
Speaker 1:You're saying the Buddhist coach of you is saying it that way, which I love. The therapist in me says you can have empathy for a person, but you can also have boundaries for yourself. And I think you just said the same thing. Yeah, we're not a doormat here. You can have some room for the. We can all empathize for the healthy emotion of anger, but I think it's appropriate for me to have boundaries for myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think this is also another point. It sounds so subtle, but I want to take this opportunity to expand more on mindfulness, which I don't think really is like a misconception. But maybe it is Like when we think about compassion or mindfulness, because that's why mindfulness works better if it's in the context of Buddhism, because if we think about Eightfold Path, it's not just mindfulness, there are other factors, and one of the most important factors is the wisdom, the discernment. So when I am practicing compassion and listening, I'm not this doormat of like oh, if negative comes, I'm negative, if positive comes, I'm positive. But there is that the example that I've heard of is a gatekeeper by the city and there is like an enemy city surrounding. So that gatekeeper is always keeping an eye out. So if a person comes in, he checks is it a spy, you know, or is it the citizen? But then? But if he's just practicing mindfulness, open awareness, he's going to let everybody in you know, but the true mindfulness is being able to differentiate.
Speaker 2:Wait, is this going to help me? Is it a good thought, is it a skillful thought, or is it an unskillful thought? Discarding or not to pay attention to thoughts that are not useful? You know that. I wanted to kind of take that opportunity to share that when we talk about mindfulness.
Speaker 1:I think you're given examples, as your Buddhist coaching and myself We've both worked with clients Thanksgiving just passed, there's Thanksgiving dinners, there's family dynamics so we've certainly had these communications with their clients. In my example we can kind of see these patterns and sometimes we make judgments which creates barriers and things like that. But I use the analogy of a window. Sometimes, empathetically, we have our window wide open. Well, a lot of times I tell my clients well, you could benefit from putting that screen in and filtering some of that stuff and not taking all of that emotion. And some of my clients go nope, it was time to close that window completely and that was my boundary and I didn't need to hear uncle, auntie, mother, father, sister, brother rail on in their visceral energy and it was not the time for compassionate listening to that door closed. Good for you, yeah, yeah, this is good. So I think we're certainly offering tips to practice compassionate listening with the empathy, the nonattachment, listening without the intention to respond but to understand that curiosity when that's not healthy and toxic, and having that mindfulness, aware we're at and being able to set boundaries, having patience, giving others the time and space to express themselves fully, while not sacrificing ourselves the generosity, the act of giving your full attention to someone else is, I think, a beautiful definition of love being completely present. This is good stuff.
Speaker 1:The therapist and me is like maintain eye contact, the body language. We do like mirroring, where if someone is open, he can be open. If someone has a leg on their knee, you can do the same thing. If someone's crossed, they may be more closed. Well, you can kind of close your arms. There's different ways for you to do, nonverbal ways to connect to people. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have one final thought which is circling back to that connection. Right, that that's what's really cool in my experience about Buddhism, especially the Four Noble Truth. If I'm having trouble connecting with someone else, there's always that baseline truth that there is suffering. That, to me, is what unites the whole living things in general. I can practice compassion and listen more. Whoever that I'm interacting with, that person has a father and a mother. That person has lost or will lose somebody that person loves. If I connect to that person at that level, nobody's alone In terms of feelings like fear, sadness, everything we are all connected from. That, I mean suffering, sounds kind of negative, but it's more of like the practicality. The reality of life is nobody's perfect. I can connect with the richest person in the world and I can connect with the poorest person in the world, no matter what.
Speaker 1:The word compassion doesn't come from Sanskrit or Bali, but from Latin. The word compassion has its roots kompeseo, which is a combination of kom, meaning together, and pati, p-a-t-i, meaning to suffer or to endure. Therefore, the literal translation of compassion is to suffer together or to endure together. Pretty powerful Sharing the suffering or challenges, which is the core concept of compassion. Compassion and being able to be present when someone shares, to be with, to be present with, to connect, to endure what they're saying and not what I'm thinking, reacting, feeling or all that stuff is what gift to give ourselves in the other person. Therapists do this real well. I do this five, six, seven, eight hours a day, and then now we're all humans, right. So even therapists can't be completely with a person 24, seven in an hour. So sometimes I have to be mindful. Oh man, where am I going? Oh, I miss what this person said. How do I actively listen and not just passive? So something like explain on that, will ya? Oh, I need to re-engage my curiosity. I need to be more connected with this person or man. I'm not sure what that person meant. So I reflect or mirror back what they said to make sure I understand what this person's trying to tell me.
Speaker 1:So therapists often have a really good skill set to be with a person with active listening. So when I get home that's not an excuse that I can't turn that off Right. So being able to be present with our family members after work, with their friends and family, and being mindful of that when I'm not 100% on, is being compassionate for myself. So I go, wait a minute. I often would get to work when I was a clinical director at 8 am and then get off at 5.30, then I'd run a relapse prevention group from 6 to 7.30. And then I'd go to an Al-Anon meeting from 7.30 to 8.30. And it would take me about a half an hour of that Al-Anon meeting to slow my brain down and listen in a different way and take off the hat of the boss, the co-worker, the therapist, the facilitator and go oh, I need to be here so I can listen and, you know, turn it off and listen in a different way. Yeah, it was training.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good. One small tip, since you mentioned about that, is that whenever we have difficulty being present with what I'm hearing, you know, there is a step backwards, you know, or a step down, which actually is the beginning of all the mindfulness practice. If I think about the 16 steps or the four foundations of mindfulness, it all starts with the breath, you know. So, like if I'm having trouble being present with people, being present with what I'm hearing, the best place to be present with, to begin with, is to be present with a breath and that becomes you are grounded back to Earth and that becomes a base where you're present and when you're fully present in the moment, you're fully present with what you're hearing, you know. So I wanted to share that too, that how breath can be a good grounding. Since you mentioned about bringing the attention back, you know, but wait, where am I going? I wanted to share that last bit. Thanks, luke.
Speaker 1:Thank you guys. Thanks for listening through my recipe Good voice. Well, compassionate listening, as we uncovered, is more than a skill. It's a way of being with others. It's about stepping into the emotional landscape of someone else's world, offering understanding and creating a space where both speaker and listener can endure the intricacies of the moment together. In our fast-paced world where distractions abound, compassionate listening stands as a testament to the enduring strength of genuine human connection. We've explored the qualities that desire this, this art, this presence, empathy, non-verbal communication and a host of others, all contributing to the creation of a space where vulnerability is honored and understanding flourishes.
Speaker 1:As you navigate your relationship, both personal and professional, we encourage you to carry the spirit of compassionate listening with you. Whether it's share joy, a moment of sorrow or a challenging conversation, let the roots of compassion guide you. By embracing the simplicity of truly hearing and understanding others, we contribute to the weaving of a more empathetic and connected world. Thank you for joining us on this journey. And to the heart of compassionate listening, and in the spirit of a therapist of Buddhism, you may you carry the lessons of today's exploration in your everyday interactions. So, until next time, stay present, stay compassionate and continue to explore the boundless depths of the human expertise with an open heart. And if you're still listening, please like and leave a comment and share, and hopefully you hear that in our voice. That would mean a lot to us. Thanks so much. We'll see you next time, thank you.